LOL thankyou gentlemen
If I wanted to meet my maker in downtown Tikrit, then I’d probably opt for nitroglycerine injection! More bang for your buck…
Congrats Uldis, I sounds exactly what you were after!
Can I ask a few questions though.
- Is the power/torque what you expected?
- Would this sort of rebuild benefit std ECU owners?
- What else would you need to have done/spent in order to achieve the higher figures that have been banded about for the K?
- Assuming it holds together, have we learned something about the ideas Simon shared?
I’m not trying to get everybody excited again, I just want to understand the outcome a little better.
Cheers, Ian
Do we know what cams are in this - power is very high up the range without making much torque.
At the moment its not that exciting in that 210 bhp is a very good figure for a K but its not unusual. The interesting thing is the RPM and the longevity and how nice and smooth it is.
Logevity is somthing only answerable with time.
The RPMs - well why not rev out it to 9k if its pefectly balanced? I thought the point was you could rev this out with the simon (kingK) build.
The smoothness is good (esp if its staying smooth as it settles in) as it suggests everything is happy. Those sucsessful 200+ Ks which have held together for a little while are marked by the owners being impressed with the smoothness and lack of concerning feedback from the engine when reved right out.
IDG et al
Uldis is offline today but will be back ramorra… he’ll have plenty typing to do when he gets back eh…
Thankd Rox, I’m just back and just seeing this for a quick post before hitting the sack.
Ian, regarding your questions:
- Is the power/torque what you expected?
- Would this sort of rebuild benefit std ECU owners?
- What else would you need to have done/spent in order to achieve the higher figures that have been banded about for the K?
- Assuming it holds together, have we learned something about the ideas Simon shared?
-It is what I expected, but we’re likely to get a bit more (trumpet lengths, exhaust, dry sump, etc).
-of course, I would say that if you don’t change the cams or valves, you can always do the rest, which is just tolerancing and balancing. In that case I don’t see why not (and you can keep the std ECU)
-see first line
-have we? I would say he applied ALL he said. I have definitely learnt many things. I hope you have as well (and more will come, he’s just about to post somethings)
Johnboy,
Piper 1444, supposedly the proigression of the 1227’s.
And you’re right about longevity. Time will tell.
And the 9K figure, well, with the long stroke design, think about the piston linear speeds and you’ll have the answer.
Mike Lane’s ex-VHPD Emerald power graph:
http://www.bookatrack.com/-PG?uldis&2326&20813&640
Mine:
http://www.bookatrack.com/-PG?uldis&2326&20807&640
Hmmm, from what I can see, the torque curve is just a bit more jumpy, but also more biased towards the high end, gaining about from 5K some 4-5lbs/ft.
I guess this was also with Titans, and the 213.5BHP come on the very last peak.
Any thoughts on how the extra torque? bigger valves? bigger ports?
Just the nature of the 1227 cams?
BUt very good engine too!
mike, did yours involve a rebuild and balancing, or just Emerald, TBs and tweaking?
Ian
Dave Andrews head with bigger inlet valves and porting / polishing, plus 1227 cams and a vernier to time them properly, and an EBD ultimate manifold, so Uldis’ results look pretty good !!!
Very similar spec to mine but i also have larger exhaust valves.
So, where are all these answers you speak of Simon ?
I was hoping for some rather more respectable results than those from Uldis’s engine. I have to say it was a bit short of the mark that a lot of us were expecting. 140 ft lbs is nothing special and it only made the power because you revved the nuts off it. By his own admission Uldis is scared to rev it to its peak so whats the point of that ?
Bernard
Hmmm, scared to rev it? past 9K yes, as anybody would.
I mean, I have never done that to my engine. But then I was scared to rev it past 7K when I just bought it, so…
8.5K is no problem. In fact, I had decreased the rev limit from 8.6K to 8.5K but have since set it back to 8.6. It just wants to live there.
More than that is pointless, since peak happens at 8.4K.
Simon had told me he was going to do some long posts very shortly, but he’s got his normal business to take care of, and I guess he wants to write extensive posts.
Apart from all the top claims and all the lagging from you guys, I am in the middle, and with a good, reliable engine this time (I know, I know, time will tell).
Can’t be more than happy about that.
Ah, and cheap to boot!
Ah, and cheap to boot!
Surely that’s because you did a lot of the work yourself (eg taking out/refitting the engine), & Simon did not charge you a true commercial rate?
What people want to know is, how much it would cost them for a full & complete “turnkey” blueprinting by someone who is doing it for a living (VAT?), & not doing someone else a favour. A mappable ECU, verniers (& cams?) & rolling road session also need to be costed in.
Don’t misunderstand me please, I’m not wishing to be a party pooper, but when comparing costs with various alternatives (eg conversions) it’s only fair that proper costs are quoted…
Edited to include “NOT” before wishing - sorry for earlier error.
With a power curve like that you are going to have to scream it to get it to go. Nothing wrong with that as long as it hangs together. What gearing have you got ? Would make sense to drop the gearing if it can rev at 8500 all day long
Yeah, lets have some costs for this “blueprinting” and the final spec of the engine too.
Bernard
Well, you had a rebuild before deciding to go Honda.
How much did you pay? about 3, 3.5K?
About the same then. Just done well.
The thing is that for ANY rebuild there is the street way or the proper way.
The proper way will cost more only by the amount charged by Steve Smith.
By the way, I saw Tut’s JDM power output at the Dastek RR where I went to make a run so I have a baseline.
In that RR, my 210BHP = 205BHP. Same shape, same everything so just need to apply a mutiplying factor.
Tut’s JDM was there 197BHP as it came, stock. He had it unichipped and it was finally 208BHP. They could get no more.
So, 208BHP Vs 205 BHP there, hmmm, no that different.
Was going to mention this after I could have the plots, but they will take a while until they have their new software version. The way it is, they can only plot to 8K. They could plot to 8.5K if they had measured me ABOVE 8.5K, but I had the limiter set at 8.5K, so will need the next version to show to 8.4
As it was, let me explain: the comparison was very favourable for the Honda below 5K, from then the K was on top and then from 8 to 7.5 to 8K the Honda was better.
Tut’s car felt as strong as they come, compared favourably with Ian Wilson’s at the Ring (actually outside), etc, etc.
He feels very happy but could NOT, before the unichip outdrag the Yota powered Elises at KH’s uphill straight.
And ah, yes, Tut also had to pay extra for a remapping and RR time.
So, for me, Honda being far superior? I give you that it’s a better designed engine (here I’m sure Simon will jump at me) but at he end it’s a newer design, so fair enough. But some people are not willing to put up with the extra weight, and not willing to pay 10K.
I know some people actually like it when when the VTEC kicks in, and I could see there was a big peak at that point explaining that, but then you can see the torque decreasing.
My point of view is: 10K? When I can get very good performance in a lighter package fr 3K? Remember that this time it’s meant to be reliably (I know, time will tell, allow me)
And keeping the car original?
Remember that when I get to Pesky’s age I still want to use my car as a classic.
I’ll do the Mille Miglia with it
Simon E’s point is another: that the package will produce more. Remember that there are still things to play with (exhaust, trumpets, dry sump probably). I know Steve has, so allow me. Whether it does or not it doesn’t matter, it’s a smaller 1.8L engine anyway.
I could still take it to 2L in the future…
Some people are hell bent on the Honda, it’s Ok.
But there is no real reason other than you:
-hate the K
-love the VTEC kick
BTW, don’t take this as a go at the Honda, really, I’m really happy for you who have it or you who are going to get it.
Just expressing another point of view.
And Bernard, just saw your post. Just about 3K, but then as Pesky mentioned, I took off and installed the engine, so it could be more money depending on the situation.
But it could be the same (I spent in things I didn’t really need to, and shipping to and forth was a lot too, I live up here surrounded by sheep and highland cows )
Uldis
Firstly, please note that I have edited my earlier post - apologies if…
My VHPD was “refreshed” at around 26K, & like you, I was fortunate enough not to have to pay the “commercial rate”.
So, on top of your “just about �3K” (including VAT of how much?) you had already paid for the Emerald ECU & verniers, which you fitted yourself, yes?
Even so, the only openly available costs for a professionally fully installed turnkey conversion, are for the Honda & the Audi. These costs are of course for the engine/gearbox, ancilliaries, driveshafts, ECU, exhaust manifold, fitting & VAT, plus I believe warranty. I wish people would stop quoting �10K for a Honda conversion - it ain’t, plus the cost is usually offset by selling the Rover stuff!!! It’s not fair for me to quote how much mine’s costing, cos I’m fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time - a couple of us bought 2 units at the same time, thus getting a better than normal deal, plus the conversion work is not being done by the “usual suspects”
Moving on, I’m not swapping because I’m looking for a really noticable power increase - hell, 200bhp or so is plenty for an old fart like me to handle (& yes I know, Tut is even older!!!). It doesn’t surprise me (& I can’t understand why it surprises anyone else) that the Yota engined S2 is as quick/slightly quicker down a straight than either a Rover or Honda’d car, & I’d rather have the Yota engine in my car than the Rover. But the Honda is my favourite after driving many Rover Exiges, a few Honda’d cars & a also couple of S2s. In my personal opinion the Rover is now well past its sell by date - that’s not saying it’s no good, just that things have moved on in the last 10 years in terms of reliable power.
It is most important that none of us misinterpret the posts on this subject, & I for one am desperate to see that it doesn’t turn into an all out bun fight! Hell, we’re all mates, & surely we can have our differences of opinion without falling out I love all Exiges, whatever powerplant they have, or indeed, whether or not they’re S1s or S2s The only exception I’ll make to that, is with regards to roof removal!!!
It is most important that none of us misinterpret the posts on this subject, & I for one am desperate to see that it doesn’t turn into an all out bun fight! Hell, we’re all mates, & surely we can have our differences of opinion without falling out I love all Exiges, whatever powerplant they have, or indeed, whether or not they’re S1s or S2s The only exception I’ll make to that, is with regards to roof removal!!!
Rob
I second that emotion.
John
It is most important that none of us misinterpret the posts on this subject, & I for one am desperate to see that it doesn’t turn into an all out bun fight! Hell, we’re all mates, & surely we can have our differences of opinion without falling out I love all Exiges, whatever powerplant they have, or indeed, whether or not they’re S1s or S2s The only exception I’ll make to that, is with regards to roof removal!!!
Spot on! couldn’t agree more.
The way I see it all Exigers are family (with all the discussions implied )
I too, don’t see why so many people go on about removing the roof
BTW, on your comment on driven many “other engined” cars, I’ll see about fitting a harness on mine especially for you to try it. You’ll tell me if it feels good
Aren’t “group hugs” great?