If I want to upgrade, the upgrade > alone > (i.e. still need the �10k new motor) and > without > some of the extras they suggest (such as racing sump � as I have the Accusump; and sintered clutch (already got)) is a further �7k
Outch - though admittedly, I didn’t think it would be much less, as, as you say, Bemani doesn’t really have much to do with the engine replacement.
If there’s one thing though, I would definately recommend going directly to Bemani and see if there’s any room if you get the engine through them and have them to the replacement as well as the upgrades. You may be able to save at least on the work load being duplicated with the Stage 2.
From what I know, Stage 2 as in the 300+bhp upgrade, includes removing the engine again and taking it apart which is why it costs that much…
I may have some info or two that may come in handy Keith if you’re interested since I have dealt with Bemani in person in the past which may be of some help or interest.
From what I know, Stage 2 as in the 300+bhp upgrade, includes removing the engine again and taking it apart which is why it costs that much…
I may have some info or two that may come in handy Keith if you’re interested since I have dealt with Bemani in person in the past which may be of some help or interest.
Thanks Phil. That Bemani price is without removing & fitting the engine. The deal would be that the dealer supplies the engine to Bemani, Bemani do the work (for �7k) and the dealer fits it (remove old, supply & fit new for �10k).
If you have anything that you think may be of interest to me, feel free to PM me if you don’t want to post it in the thread!
At the very least upgrade the valves and springs…If you had the springs you’d still be driving…
Spoke to Bemani today and went through all the points that people have made. Made for very interesting conversation � sounds controversial to me, so feel free to comment!
They say do not upgrade the oil pump � the oil pump is the weakest point and that is good so � it means that if it fails and the red light comes on, you stop before something else lets go.
They say upgrading the valves and springs is completely pointless as they are up to the job even with the 300+bhp � “would be crazy to change them” was how they put it.
They have custom pistons made for them. They also change various other bits and pieces, e.g. in the intake system.
Now I don’t have a dyno chart , but the 300+bhp is a minimum of 300 and, according to telephone conversation today, the cars generally show 310-315bhp.
I then discussed the fact that these extra bhp cost more than twice as much per bhp as the stage 1. The answer, not surprisingly, is that the first gains are easiest to obtain.
Also talked about the cost of the Toyota engine � I mentioned that a mate had asked if they use gold in the construction with those prices. Reply was that they are quite expensive � he would guess around �6,500 before tax.
Told him I was finding it hard to justify the additional outlay to my wife � he suggested softening her up with a weekend in a nice hotel. When I told my wife, her comment was, “Oh,and are Bemani going to pay for that?”
She was not happy when I bought the Cup Bemani in the first place � I do spend more on my toys than she does on hobbies � but she agrees that I’m not ready for the 500SL yet (so there is hope)! Would be pushing my luck again with this upgrade though (engine replacement is bad enough!)…
Will mull all this over this weekend. Can’t help feeling I would get more from spending the dosh in other ways, much as I am tempted by 310bhp…
Feck, I just rang a dealer and got a price… �5500 + tax.
I guess Mr X who told me the other price has bought one from a scrappers or off the back of a lorry…
I can imagine that the pump, valves and pistons are mullered but hopefully the bores, rods and crank are okay? You need to strip it and see how much is salvagble…
Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I think your dealer should disassemble the engine and make sure how big the damage is. A friend of mine had engine failure after a screw was sucked into the engine and completely locked up one of the pistons. Dealer disassembled the engine, saw that only one piston was effected and changed it a long with other parts. Cost around �4000.
In other words, if Bemani would disassemble the engine and find out that the damage is repairable, you may be looking at a Stage 2 tuning and a repair for less money than a completely new engine block. Obviously, your Lotus dealer wouldn’t be in favour of this, though.
I’m not an engine specialist, but I’d be interested to find out what Bemani thinks of the situation. Maybe they would in favour of repair insteat of replacement as well? If the work is done properly, surely the risk of something being missed out is minimal?
At the very least upgrade the valves and springs…If you had the springs you’d still be driving…
Spoke to Bemani today and went through all the points that people have made. Made for very interesting conversation � sounds controversial to me, so feel free to comment!
They say do > not > upgrade the oil pump � the oil pump is the weakest point and that is > good > so � it means that if it fails and the red light comes on, you stop before something else lets go.
They say upgrading the valves and springs is completely pointless as they are up to the job even with the 300+bhp � “would be crazy to change them” was how they put it.
They have custom pistons made for them. They also change various other bits and pieces, e.g. in the intake system.
Now I don’t have a dyno chart , but the 300+bhp is a minimum of 300 and, according to telephone conversation today, the cars generally show 310-315bhp.
I then discussed the fact that these extra bhp cost more than twice as much per bhp as the stage 1. The answer, not surprisingly, is that the first gains are easiest to obtain.
Also talked about the cost of the Toyota engine � I mentioned that a mate had asked if they use gold in the construction with those prices. Reply was that they are quite expensive � he would guess around �6,500 before tax.
Told him I was finding it hard to justify the additional outlay to my wife � he suggested softening her up with a weekend in a nice hotel. When I told my wife, her comment was, “Oh,and are Bemani going to pay for that?”
She was not happy when I bought the Cup Bemani in the first place � I do spend more on my toys than she does on hobbies � but she agrees that I’m not ready for the 500SL yet (so there is hope)! Would be pushing my luck again with this upgrade though (engine replacement is bad enough!)…
Will mull all this over this weekend. Can’t help feeling I would get more from spending the dosh in other ways, much as I am tempted by 310bhp…
All I can say is have the boys from Bemani go over to MoreMonkey and sign in so I can really speak my mind…Yeah the oil pump is a kown problem with the 2ZZ and have failed, and when they do your motor is toast along with your oil coolers and oil lines…It would be a major job to even think of cleaning them out with the shrapnell in every oil passage…My buddies 255 lost it’s oil pump and had to have the engine oil lines and coolers replaced…Bemanie are taking you you for a sucker and nothing more…If you had the upgraded oil pump and valve springs you never would be in this freakin mess…Ask Lotus Motor Sport what they think after our conversation, they wanted to know what bits were in my engine…here is a link to a parts source don’t belive those rip offs at Bemani http://monkeywrenchracing.com/circuitworx_oil_pump_gears_toyota_2zz.html any and I mean any engine builder that can’t show me a real dyno sheet on a engine that they build is full of [censored]…Dude get your head out of the beautifull Swiss sand and don’t get taken again…
Yeah the oil pump is a kown problem with the 2ZZ and have failed, and when they do your motor is toast along with your oil coolers and oil lines…It would be a major job to even think of cleaning them out with the shrapnell in every oil passage…My buddies 255 lost it’s oil pump and had to have the engine oil lines and coolers replaced…Bemanie are taking you you for a sucker and nothing more…If you had the upgraded oil pump and valve springs you never would be in this freakin mess…
I trust, Bemani has their reasons to keep the oil-pump as the weakest link - if not, why wouldn’t they upgrade it?
After watching the video, I’m also wondering if switching off the engine immediately after the oil-lamp came on would have prevented the large damage. Accelerating to the top, surely didn’t help things and if I’m not mistaken, only after those few seconds did the noise start and the damage start to get ugly.
I wouldn’t trust that any one would comment on your website - after all, it’s probably an experience thing. Bemani made theirs, you made yours. If you so disagree with that, perhaps call them directly and find out - or simply write them an email. I’d be surprised if it’d go unanswered.
Yeah the oil pump is a kown problem with the 2ZZ and have failed, and when they do your motor is toast along with your oil coolers and oil lines…It would be a major job to even think of cleaning them out with the shrapnell in every oil passage…My buddies 255 lost it’s oil pump and had to have the engine oil lines and coolers replaced…Bemanie are taking you you for a sucker and nothing more…If you had the upgraded oil pump and valve springs you never would be in this freakin mess…
I trust, Bemani has their reasons to keep the oil-pump as the weakest link - if not, why wouldn’t they upgrade it?
After watching the video, I’m also wondering if switching off the engine immediately after the oil-lamp came on would have prevented the large damage. Accelerating to the top, surely didn’t help things and if I’m not mistaken, only after those few seconds did the noise start and the damage start to get ugly.
I wouldn’t trust that any one would comment on your website - after all, it’s probably an experience thing. Bemani made theirs, you made yours. If you so disagree with that, perhaps call them directly and find out - or simply write them an email. I’d be surprised if it’d go unanswered.
Ok enough is enough you are an idiot, have you ever takin an engine apart or even watched? Do you even know how the oiling system works or seen a flow diagram you my sand covered friend are as dumb as a freakin rock…switch off the engine what, after there is no oil presure because the pump has come apart or the valves have floated and made contact with the piston crowns…Read the dam book…The CEL comes on after the fact you bone head…and if you can’t read at least look at the pretty pictures…
Calm down Frank, I’ve no idea as to the rights and wrongs of the discussion but the manner of your last post is totaly uncalled for.
What are you trying to do - have UncleP disappear for a few months again (sorry UncleP )
Frank, read my reply, again - carefully. I didn’t say damage would have been prevented - my point is, how much of a damage could have been avoided? Again, I’m speculating here, as much as you are probably, while watching the video in where the noise hits in a few seconds after the oil lamp came on.
Frank you can relax, its not your engine that is fooked.
Your right it isn’t but wouldn’t you want one of your mates lookin out for your best intrests…
Swiss sand is what Bemani owners seem to have their heads burried in…
I would expect little else. However, if he/she doesnt want/heed your thoughts then just walk away, dont go all medieval on their ass and start an aggressive derogatory campaign on-line and in pamphlet form about their mother. Just my 2p.