It’s a dead duck Simon…
Dave
Just a bit of random cooling related blurb to drag the dieing carcase of this thread back on track
Normally I refer to the bypass line as the pipe which bypasses the RADIATOR and brings coolant back to the pump entry/stat housing so for the (Elsie and Caterham at least) K the small pipe which drops back onto the stat housing would be the bypass. The only thing is that this runs through the heater core so in my book it then becomes the heater feed/return. True bypass hoses are a feature of larger engines where the required warm up flow is higher than is practical to flow through the heater. I guess the 1.8 K sits on the boundary and the PRT stat gives it this large free-flowing genuine bypass passage. I know that VW have also introduced double acting (thats my term for PRT) thermostats on the final 1.8T engines in the Touran I think.
Next, if you have an 88�C thermostat which is maintaining engine inlet at 88�C then it will be mixing mostly coolant from the heater return at ~ 91�C and a tiny amount of fluid from the rad which will be much lower, probably close to ambient and the net result is 88�C.
If you run at high load/high ambient temp and the stat starts to settle out at 90 or higher then the main path from the rad must have opened a bit more, the bottom hose will therefore be flowing faster and the temperature will be higher. Switching on fans at this point will only serve to bring the temp back to 88 or so but only really if you are stationary. On the move fans make almost no difference and to be honest you’d cool better on track without them…
If you want to make your engine run at 72�C you need to re calibrate the thermostat bulb. This is done by crimping it. If you look at the bulb you can usually see lines in the side or a dent in the end, this squashes the wax inside more thus preloading it to open earlier. In skilled hands you can lower the operating temp by just punching the end slightly.
As regards set point for fans, I wouldn’t say 104 was too bad, okay it not nice to see a 3 digit number but the coolant is way off boiling and the structure of the engine should be designed to sit at 115/120 all day without distorting/fatigueing/melting etc… It would be nice to have it set at 95 though? If everything gets all sweaty whilst you sit at the lights the engine wont have full performance for a minute or two when everything is back to set point. I suppose it saves fuel though in town…
Most modern tin tops wont even bother telling you when they get hot. The temp gauge on the dash isn’t actually registering the temp. Its just reprogramed to sit in the middle unless you have a serious issue. A good example of this is the Mondeo, it has a switchable stat which is set to 108�C I think at part load, it certainly wont open in a boiling kettle, but when the engines under load it is forced to open at 78�C for best torque, and all along the needle on the dash is nailed at 12 o’clock.
Anyway, thats enough thermostats for tonight, I’m tired and I’ve got get up in the morning and go design a new cooling system which doesn’t have any coolant flow at all to the radiator for about 10minutes, oh joy.
Tomorrow night…water pumps.
You’re up late Bob…
Dave
Mornin Dave, I was up scouring google maps to find a decent pub the July meet and then I read this whole thread, ripping good yarn as they say!!
Oh well, it was worth a go … the problem is that two intelligent people can make these arguments go on forever … with no resolution.
bang on
Great thread, well apart from the flirting
Getting back to the debate, and this maybe a silly question, so, pardon me if it is! Is it possible to get the cooling fans to cut in at an earlier temp with a standard 190 ecu and 82 stat? I don’t know, maybe by manipulating the sensor?!
you might consider connecting a switch in the cabin via relay to fan and directly to 12v battery … then do it manually if ou get worried - you need to make sure the thermostat is open before you switch your fan on of course
Mark
Easiest thing to do is fit a manual overide switch - ok you’ll have to watch the temp, but that’s not too difficult when stuck in traffic ie when the temp starts to rapidly rise!
Assuming, of course, you don’t want to spend �1K on an Emerald/verniers & rolling road mapping
ahh… just read this… catching up you see…
[quote…you need to make sure the thermostat is open before you switch your fan on of course [/quote]
Interesting thought, you turn fan on manually, cool water incredibly, stat opens, freezing cold water floods in and warps everything, giving you a HGF!
Ian
Not with the PRT, the water will blend perfectly by the time it reaches the block.
[quote…you need to make sure the thermostat is open before you switch your fan on of course
Interesting thought, you turn fan on manually, cool water incredibly, stat opens, freezing cold water floods in and warps everything, giving you a HGF!
Ian [/quote]
my car was running so hot this weekend. driving slow 86deg, drive fast 90, standing goes up to 98 the fan comes on. all with a 82 deg thermostat!!!
i have ordered the land rover kit a la moles1. Few questions regarding the other bits required. Where do I get the spacer for the original thermostat , also there are two o-rings and another gasket required. where is the best place to get these?
here’s the list from the installation website. as reference.
"Parts needed
To install the remote thermostat the following parts are required:
-
1 Land Rover Freelander Thermostat Kit part PCH001190
-
1 Spacer to use instead of the old thermostat part PEL000040
-
3 Thermostat housing gaskets (2 O-rings + 1 inner gasket)
-
40 cm aluminium pipe, OD 32 mm ID 28 mm
-
1 aluminium disc 22x1 mm
-
8 l of coolant fluid (I used a red OAT product, as recommended by the manifacturer)"
regarding the alu disc with 1mm hole. as i have aircon, i do not need this part. is this correct? I am going to remove the clam to do this as i want to open up the rear fake vents. this should reduce the knuckle splitting a bit.
any news on the 79 degree stat? I got a bit lost in this thread, it seemed to veer away from the theme somewhat. so has that had been sourced yet?
cheers, mitch.
my car was running so hot this weekend. driving slow 86deg, drive fast 90, standing goes up to 98 the fan comes on. all with a 82 deg thermostat!!!
i have ordered the land rover kit a la moles1. Few questions regarding the other bits required. Where do I get the spacer for the original thermostat , also there are two o-rings and another gasket required. where is the best place to get these?
here’s the list from the installation website. as reference.
"Parts neededTo install the remote thermostat the following parts are required:
1 Land Rover Freelander Thermostat Kit part PCH001190
1 Spacer to use instead of the old thermostat part PEL000040
3 Thermostat housing gaskets (2 O-rings + 1 inner gasket)
40 cm aluminium pipe, OD 32 mm ID 28 mm
1 aluminium disc 22x1 mm
8 l of coolant fluid (I used a red OAT product, as recommended by the manifacturer)"
regarding the alu disc with 1mm hole. as i have aircon, i do not need this part. is this correct? I am going to remove the clam to do this as i want to open up the rear fake vents. this should reduce the knuckle splitting a bit.
any news on the 79 degree stat? I got a bit lost in this thread, it seemed to veer away from the theme somewhat. so has that had been sourced yet?
cheers, mitch.
The spacer for the stat is not really needed as when you take the old stat out you can cut the bulb and spring out and just be left with the outer part. (Hard to explain but all you need is piece of metal to hold the gasket in place, it will make sense when you can see it in front of you). The part no’s for the 2 o-rings are : A111E6067S and the thermostat gasket part no is :A111E6084S from a Rover or Lotus dealer. The bypass disk is not used on AC cars and the Ali pipe is not needed as you remove a section of pipe from the car that is not needed on the new setup. (the pipe goes from the sill under the airbox trunking to the left hand hose going to the original stat)
cheers pal, top infos. i reckon i am all ready to go then, as soon as the kit arrives. i hope it will help the flow and cool my car down a bit. Also chopping a few holes in the back and a MS engine cover should help out.
I wouldnt bother removing the rear clam to do it just remove the no plate and cut out the clam leaving just the 3 fixing points to secure the plate back on. Get a dremel or drill holes and use a hacksaw. Remove the airbox as well only really needed so you can see the stat in the block. The stat will probably be stuck in the block where the o ring has expanded and was a 2 man job to remove it as its hard to get your hands in the right place to pull it out. Once the old stat is out the rest of it can be done on ramps easily enough. Use some white grease/vaseline on the o rings when replacing.
Any sign of a low 80oC thermo yet?
Ian
cheers pal, top infos. i reckon i am all ready to go then, as soon as the kit arrives. i hope it will help the flow and cool my car down a bit. Also chopping a few holes in the back and a MS engine cover should help out.
Maybe the pics of when I did it would be of assistance?
Thanks moles1 and Uldis, that has saved me a few hours removing the big bit. Uldis is your number plate bracket standard on all cars or is that a ‘special’? I have only removed the number plate from my car and there is a plastic plate over the whole number plate aperture, and this i have not yet removed. Is this bracket to space the number plate away from the clamshell to allow more ventilation when the plate is fitted?
Also where did you source the mesh? it looks a good match, a couple of those throw away barbeques? should be ok with the heat then.
thank you chaps.
Thanks moles1 and Uldis, that has saved me a few hours removing the big bit. Uldis is your number plate bracket standard on all cars or is that a ‘special’? I have only removed the number plate from my car and there is a plastic plate over the whole number plate aperture, and this i have not yet removed. Is this bracket to space the number plate away from the clamshell to allow more ventilation when the plate is fitted?
Also where did you source the mesh? it looks a good match, a couple of those throw away barbeques? should be ok with the heat then.
thank you chaps.
The black number plate bracket is the original, just cut down to a shape I liked , but originally is to space out the plate only and give it a little bit of an angle.
In my case it’s there to space out for better ventilation even with the plate on.
And the mesh is aluminum, from B&Q (I think they use it for protecting fireplaces)
[quoteThere is a new 74 deg stat on the way, will take a little more time yet but this will be an even better solution and give some more horsepower. [/quote]
Simon - will your new 74 deg stat be a simple drop in to the Land Rover Freelander Thermostat Kit part PEL 500150 or does it fit into a completely different circuit.
I just want to know whether i can do the currently available mod and then “upgrade” later or whether i would have to junk it and start again?