new lotus europa

General General Lotus Talk
41

My gut feeling is not many in the UK, but can’t comment about other potential markets eg USA or Far East.

At the end of the day, I do hope it’s a success, so the revenue can be used to develop the sorts of cars we want

I hope it sells by the bucket load to fund something proper for the enthusiast (us) to buy. Unfortunately it’s not for sale in the USofA, or Canada…& wasn’t the M250 canned because it wasn’t being developed for the states???

Tim.

42

At the end of the day, I do hope it’s a success, so the revenue can be used to develop the sorts of cars we want

Pesky, we keep on repeating the same mantra, but let’s face it, Lotus is a different company now. They’re going for a different market, more “grown up”.

Look at what they brought with the track car, is that what you want?

For what we want we’d better be looking elsewhere (sadly)

43

Uldis

I hear what you’re saying, & you’re probably right!

By “what we want to buy”, I was actually talking generally, cos I’m genuinely happy to keep my Exige for as long as I’m capable of driving it This is really fortunate for me, because I can’t ever see myself ever again being able to afford to spend �30K plus on a “fun car” (unless I win the lottery!).

I believe that there is a strong UK market for a car that looks like the M250, but with a decent powertrain, but the new Europa isn’t that car!

Thank “god”, Lotus actually made the S1 Exige, & I’m fortunate enough to have one in my garage

44

I dont understand the view that Lotus is somehow a different company now. Different to what exactly?

Looking through the history books (or using my memory ) the company seems pretty much the same with regard to upholding its principles founded by Mr Chapman. There are examples in every decade going back to the 50’s. The road car policy was perhaps at it’s 'softest in the 80’s.

I can’t see why they couldn’t produce a rawer/lighter version of any of the current crop on offer. The approach to car manufacture is still way different (better) than anything else i see out there

Tim.

45

In order to be ‘light’ they only have to be under the current crop of bloaters out there. Whilst that’s allowing more creature comforts it’s not making the cars any faster. Electronics are allowing other manufacturers to produce products that mimic what Lotus have done so well over the years, and I think Uldis is right, it is causing Lotus to have to create and sell products in niches where they can. The ideology is definitely being compromised.

And I’m ever more with Pesky, my S1 is going nowhere, it is the last great true Lotus.

Ian

46

I dont understand the view that Lotus is somehow a different company now. Different to what exactly?

Different to the one that conceived the Elise at 650Kg initially (then they couldn’t meet the target, but they tried). Light is right.

A good read, that Lotus Elise book, and how they tried.

Read here a note from Lotus CEO Kim Ogaard-Nielsen about the new Europa.

47

By “what we want to buy”, I was actually talking generally, cos I’m genuinely happy to keep my Exige for as long as I’m capable of driving it This is really fortunate for me, because I can’t ever see myself ever again being able to afford to spend �30K plus on a “fun car” (unless I win the lottery!).

Same here, and I can only see with admiration how Russ, Sean, Randy and others can play with different cars, but hey, somebody’s got to do it! (and at least it’s driving enthusiasts, and not rich posers)

Maybe some day…

48

After chatting with my none Lotus chums, the majority think it looks good, and they take it as a given that it will go well, and the Lotus brand is still pretty cool. BUT they’d probably buy a Porsche Boxter if they had that sort of money

49

BUT they’d probably buy a Porsche Boxter if they had that sort of money

QED

50

my S1 is going nowhere, it is the last great true Lotus.

Ian

I’m inclined to agree with you Ian - can’t see me getting rid of the lil’ beast ever

51

The ‘old’ Europa covered Type numbers 47, 47D, 54, 65 and 74. They all looked basically the same but were totally different. This new car, Type 121, emulates the original Type 47 i.e. mid-engined 2 seat coupe with a boot at the back, leather interior, electric windows etc etc and is a GT, that is a Grand Tourer, capable of covering huge distances at decent speeds, two up with luggage and in comfort. Do not lose sight of this before you pass judgement. It is NOT an Exige or anything like it. Maybe, soon, there will be a 47D equivalent, i.e. an out and out racing derivative capbale of taking a bigger set of running gear than the current 111 models, or a US-engined version.

Don’t deny Lotus their right to sell cars and make money.

It’s no Exige and it’s not as pretty as one might have hoped but it IS a Lotus, well in keeping with the genre.

I’ll reserve judgement until I see and drive it.

52

sense at last -

and to all the earlier posters

53

Don’t deny Lotus their right to sell cars and make money.

I think it’s more that we’re sad that Lotus are having to do that by designing cars that don’t appear to be aimed at they loyal fans.

From what I know about Mr Chapman, I think he’d be proud of avid supporters that were critical of efforts where they deserve it (e.g. S1 Exige A/c!), the jury is out on the new Europa.

Lotus does it’s best work when it is exciting and innovative, history is full of examples. In this case, I just don’t see that yet…but I want to.

Ian

54

I agree with what you are saying and the reasons for the new car but I think what most of us are saying is that the car is just not a good design, its just not good looking.
Every new car that Lotus have brouugt out over the last 20 years I’ve wanted this is the first I haven’t.
Lotus needs a car like this, but needed it to have the WOW factor and it hasn’t…or it has but for the wrong reasons.
Perhaps it will look better in the flesh…thats a sentence I thought I would never use when talking about a new Lotus.

55

I think it’s more that we’re sad that Lotus are having to do that by designing cars that don’t appear to be aimed at they loyal fans.

From what I know about Mr Chapman, I think he’d be proud of avid supporters that were critical of efforts where they deserve it (e.g. S1 Exige A/c!), the jury is out on the new Europa.

Ian - I love my car but have to question whether most of us on this site are loyal fans in the sense of what a car company does to exist, ie sell cars, parts and servcies. I’m not likely to purchase another Lotus model soon, most parts I purchase are upgrade parts from 3rd parties and I use non-franchised dealers for servicing. Not exactly putting many $$$ back in the company pot then.

This may be a narrow definition of loyal fans but without the $$$ Lotus will not survive.

I’m no Colin Chapman expert, but I thought he built cars to support his passion for racing and would do whatever it took to make this happen.

56

[quote
I think it’s more that we’re sad that Lotus are having to do that by designing cars that don’t appear to be aimed at they loyal fans.

From what I know about Mr Chapman, I think he’d be proud of avid supporters that were critical of efforts where they deserve it (e.g. S1 Exige A/c!), the jury is out on the new Europa.

Ian [/quote]

At the risk of being put in the beer and anorak brigade let’s not forget that it was Mr Chapman who insisted on moving the company up market with the 4-seater cars, generally reckoned to be some of the company’s worst work… although I have one and don’t subscribe to that view…

Also, there were many loyal fans long before the arrival of the type 111 cars… I think there is a risk of Exigers being very parochial here … and there’s nothing wrong with that on a forum called “www.egixes.com”!!!

…and are you sure the car is as ugly as it looks in the photos. Even the M250 didn’t look very good in photos but in the ‘flesh’ it was absolutely stunning and I still want one!

57

Even the M250 didn’t look very good in photos but in the ‘flesh’ it was absolutely stunning and I still want one!

Just to rub it in You can’t seriously be comparing the new Europa, with this stunner!!!

[image]http://fastcoolcars.com/images/wallpaper15/lotus_m250_2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/EliseyDoesIt/euro5.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/EliseyDoesIt/euro1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/hwhuang/Cars/M250.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre4/lotus/m250/2001_lotus_m250_02_m.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.users.broadband.hu/autoplusz/19/exkluziv192.jpg[/image]

58

[quote Just to rub it in You can’t seriously be comparing the new Europa, with this stunner!!!
[/quote]
No, of course not and, as you well know, I have that very M250 image permanently displayed above my desk. … and I already said that I don’t think the Europa looks good in the publicity photos . My point is that even the M250 didn’t photograph well and the Europa may be better looking in the ‘flesh’ than it is currently being credited with. Perhaps the PR man will get the sack…And they’ve given themselves until July to smooth it off…

And one last point. Except for the first trials car and the MkIII racing car, for most of the company’s life and product range Lotus has NOT turned racing cars into road cars. Before the Elise/Motorsport Elise/Exige it was always road cars (with plush cabins and boot space) turned into racing cars, excpet for the formula cars , of course. Even the Exige came from a ‘soft’ road car via the motorsport version…

I love this forum…

59

I love this forum…

60

…and I still have the memories…
[image]http://static.flickr.com/35/72440324_b191cb8607.jpg[/image] [image]http://static.flickr.com/35/72440325_f37409ec19.jpg[/image]