All this talk about intercoolers is so last year, what you guys should be talkin about is a dual fuel system that doesn’t care if your OE intercooler is a toaster since you can have any detonation preventing octane fuel rating you like…Adding the proper mix of isopropyl alcohol with its 118 octane rating means the engine will not knock and you will have all the power you dialed in [boost/timing]…
At 26 psi. I make 560 whp = 644 BHP on 91 octane pump gas with my staged alcohol fuel system… 
Dual fuel ??
Us Bits ain’t got the hang of one fuel yet !!
Ace ! I could use some of the local vodka the Polish are making thats cheaper a gallon than petrol .
Ok so I can make 425 whp with my chargecooler setup on 91 octane pump gas at 20 psi., so what’s the problem here ?
Frank, I’ve got a 400bhp pump-fueled, chargecooled Exige too. But coming on this thread willy-waving and saying “my car’s great so what’s the problem?” isn’t exactly helpful or relevant.
The problem is that supercharged S2s come with intercoolers. This thread appears to be a discussion on how ineffective they are (on a hot day under track driving conditions) and how they might be able to be improved without spending the high premiums commanded by the sellers of chargecooler conversions…
I’ve just ordered the various parts required to carry out a couple of ‘jfk’ auxiliary air supplies on my friend’s 2008 S. I look forward to seeing exactly what the results are and he’s crossing his fingers that the extra air supply will allow the car to be tracked with the roof off.
As Buzz Armstrong once said, watch this space
What this does make me wonder is how bad a standard S without the extended scoop must be especially if you have a gotham or CN 260 upgrade 
Frank, I’ve got a 400bhp pump-fueled, chargecooled Exige too. But coming on this thread willy-waving and saying “my car’s great so what’s the problem?” isn’t exactly helpful or relevant.
The problem is that supercharged S2s come with intercoolers. This thread appears to be a discussion on how ineffective they are (on a hot day under track driving conditions) and how they might be able to be improved without spending the high premiums commanded by the sellers of chargecooler conversions…
I’ve just ordered the various parts required to carry out a couple of ‘jfk’ auxiliary air supplies on my friend’s 2008 S. I look forward to seeing exactly what the results are and he’s crossing his fingers that the extra air supply will allow the car to be tracked with the roof off.
As Buzz Armstrong once said, watch this space [/quote]
To be fair the charge cooler didn’t do that well either and temps are way higher than I would have thought , we need to get all the options together for a test one day .
The problem is you guys are using a poor chargecooler design…
To the new guy, It’s to big to wave and I’ve been doing big power 2ZZ powered Lotus longer than anyone…
Instead of pointing out my huge man unit you should have asked how did you do it.
What sort of temps do you get on a hot day with your charge cooler ?
It’s always hot here in Southern California…
I’m always between 10-15f above ambient even when it’s 105f. and I’m running 30 psi. of boost in the twisties… That’s 2nd/3rd gear high RPM driving at speeds between 40-120 mph, so the cooling effect of the airflow on the heat exchangers is key to the chargecoolers efficiency… “Heat Exchangers”, that’s right I run four seperate radiators and a 20 gpm water pump… My chargecooler is rated at 850 hp…
My engine water temps matain a nice 175-185*f while on the loud peddle.
So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don’t think we are quite comparing apples with apples.
Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.
The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing.
Or the early 240R and 240cup NA roofs with a slot cut out.
[quote=JDS]So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don’t think we are quite comparing apples with apples.
Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.
The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing. [/quote]
You are right there are no apples the same size as mine…
First off with more than twice the torque/power that 40 sec. of wide open throttle would cut quite a bit maybe to twenty five. As a matter of fact I can’t even find a road long enough that could give me 40 sec. of full tilt loud peddle.
On the dyno I do 15 sec. pulls with only a 5*f rise in intake temps, unless the road is all up hill it is no where as hard on the engine as the dyno fully loaded without any airflow around the engine…
As I said my air through the heatexchangers vairies between 40-120 mph so the cooling air is not constant but off and on… Temps don’t recover when breaking but when you increase the airflow through the heatexchangers, sure you are not making more heat but the cooling medium [water] is now heat soaking slightly… Step on the gas and watch the temps drop…
Seriously why do you guys follow rules set down when you are only doing a track day, think outside the box where there are no rules.
The GT3 car was arse slow compared to mine and my charge temps were much lower when I was just supercharged…This is fact.
Don’t just limit yourself to what you can buy off the shelf but look for some one that can make the proper setup for you, there are no rules…Take advantage of that fact… 
Well that is why we got (credit to moonin) MMG to make a bespoke A/A I/C using marston aerospace exchangers. These are the guys that make the I/Cs for the Fezza and Red Bull F1 teams. Same spec cores. Yes, it’s not a C/C, but I don’t have 4 rads and 800brake. i just need to put some science to it. I’ll try to get Moonin’s OBD2 for Goodwood, but obviously it won’t be apples for apples.
Anyway frank, enough of your apples, I suppose you reckon your plums are the dog’s as well , don’t you?
[quote=JDS]So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don’t think we are quite comparing apples with apples.
Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.
The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing. [/quote]
Girly lift - you talkin to me ??? 
[quote=661]Well that is why we got (credit to moonin) MMG to make a bespoke A/A I/C using marston aerospace exchangers. These are the guys that make the I/Cs for the Fezza and Red Bull F1 teams. Same spec cores. Yes, it’s not a C/C, but I don’t have 4 rads and 800brake. i just need to put some science to it. I’ll try to get Moonin’s OBD2 for Goodwood, but obviously it won’t be apples for apples.
Anyway frank, enough of your apples, I suppose you reckon your plums are the dog’s as well , don’t you? [/quote]
Well, the dog’s got his own but he does have an envious look in his eye… :whistle:
I can’t seem to find any A/A intercoolers on those cars F1 cars.
Unless you mount an A/A much like the Red Bull Exige in the boot with proper ducting you are just wastin money for very little gain…
If you don’t want my advice don’t take it, enjoy your bitchin about the heat you can’t rid and the power you will never make…It’s only your time and money to waste…enjoy
Frank I don’t think anyone on here is saying your system dosnt work or you don’t know what your talking about and I’m sure your car needs that sort of cooling BUT all I was saying is for those of us with normal 300hp sized testicles I don’t think four pre-rads and all the extra weight is needed , it’s clear that just by changing the rubbish standard intercooler for a Forge tube and fin intercooler lowers IATs a fair bit , what if it got lots more airflow and a ( on paper ) more efficient bar and plate intercooler ?
The weight of a proper chargecooler and aditional heatexchangers is muscle mass not fat. With more sustained power you can surpass any A/A intercooled Lotus…
There are no powerful A/A intercooled Lotus with the cooler in the stock location…
The problem is the intercooler placement and the lack of airflow… If you want to stick with an A/A look at the placement of the VF supercharger intercooler…
All well and good ,but,how do you explain my low intake temps then if air/air don’t work??
Let’s see the data logs of your throttle position and on boost/time.
If your A/A setup worked or if the A/A of any Lotus track day specials worked they would be used on a “real track car”… Sorry dude they all fall far short of the mark.
If Ade had my old supercharger “only” chargecooler with it’s two heatexchangers and dual pumps there would be no discussion…
Enjoy the competition between one another it’s a good thing…
But ask yourself why did Lotus choose A/W, for the added weight ?