Keenan,Glad to hear youre OK, well sort of OK. That must have been some impact. Well, youve certainly highlighted a serious problem with the rollbar. Perhaps Lotus was thinking of the weight when it chose that cross section ?
Yes, please. Upload some piccies.
Kee, when you said that the roll bar looked like a love heart, I didn’t realise that you were being literal! [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif[/image] I’m really glad that you and your passenger are relatively OK, as looking at the car you might not have been so lucky. As an aside, are you sure that the roll bar didn’t impact the kerb or something, as I’ve seen a number of rolled Elises and in every case the roll bar has been more or less intact? IAC, I think your roll bar saved you life, so in that respect it served it’s purpose. I think I might just get the lads to fit the A-frame from the motorsport car before Donnington… Hope you’re recovering well. [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
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This is a copy of a e-mail i sent to both Lotus Technical and legal. To my supprise there has been no responce or request to inspect the vehicle. They obviously do not care for our safety or they are 100% sure they have got it right.For your information as far as i can tell the bar bent on impact with the off side of the car and the grass, not the top of the car pushing it down, although once the bar had kinked the roof impact was then able to crush the bar down.In my mind lotus should be fitting as a recall a re-designd or strenghtend bar FOC. Why should you guys have to pay for an essential safety feature. They have got it wrong.Copy of the E-mailHello my name is Keenan Perrin and I am the owner of Exige number 066. The Car Was involved in a road traffic accident on Tuesday 4th September at 06-15 am on Whiteley way (po15) Hants. The police were in attendance and no charges have been brought on any persons. The car was flipped onto its roof on a grass surface and to my amazement the roll bar collapsed totally and the roof became detached. Head, Neck and back injuries have been sustained by my passenger (Mr Neil Sullivan) and myself receiving similar injuries including damage to my scull… I have enclosed Photos of the wreckage and had a person the same height as myself sit in the car to give you some kind of idea of the severity of the design fault. My primary concern is for that of other Exige and possibly Elise drivers and Passengers. I have previously spoken with Mr David Massey your technical author and informed him of the fault. (Wednesday 5th September 16:30 hrs) I Intend to Seek compensation from Lotus for Physical and Mental injuries along with the future loss of enjoyment of this type of vehicle. I will obviously make the vehicle available for your inspection should you wish to inspect the damage for future development / Recall work. I would also be willing to show your experts around the crash site within the next few days before the evidence of lack of speed is erased by time. I would rather not engage in a lengthy legal battle but if necessary both Mr Sullivan and myself are willing to do so, using the full weight of the law with the assistance of the motoring press. Please contact me by 16:00hrs Tuesday 11th September 01 to discuss how you would like to approach the situation Yours truly, Keenan PerrinGuys what are your thoughts? has anyone else any more information on the roll bar?Kee [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
Kee, IMHO it’s not too surprising that Lotus hasn�t responded immediately to your email given its tone and content. I suspect that Lotus are currently giving it a lot of thought and are trying to decide how best to handle the situation; I doubt very much that the lack of response is down to the fact that they are ignoring you. When someone threatens you with legal action you tend to do your homework before responding. Hopefully you will get a reply soon…
Lifted from the Elise forum on British Cars BBS:Posted 11 September 2001 at 09:03:27 UK time Mark Perrott, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Here’s Nick Adam’s view on the Exige roll over bar (copied in from the LotusLife BBS):Hi All, first of all I’d like to say it’s good to hear the driver and passenger both escaped what was obviously a major accident with minor injuries. We wish them both a speedy recovery. I wouldn’t be alarmed at what you see though, the roll over bar obviously did it’s job as the occupants are still alive… Although it’s hard to judge without seeing more details of the accident it appears that the car hit a raised kerb or similar with the rear offside wheel while sliding sideways pretty fast. Fast because this impact was sufficient to completely shear the wheel rim from the hub, breaking the spokes. This impact probably launched the car into a roll, when it landed on the rollover bar. This impact was probably sufficient to kink the bar in its slightly raised centre, absorbing a lot of energy and cushioning the impact for the occupants. The car then appears to have continued to roll and have taken a second impact on the side of the roll bar which caused it to fold inwards where it was weakened by the first impact. I believe the car ended up in a ditch, it could be this second impact was the car hitting the side of the ditch. The bar obviously did not collapse in the centre as the result of a single blow as the screen surround and tail of the car remain intact and (unless it landed on top of a concrete post or similar!)the roll bar could not have been pushed that far down without crushing one or both of these structures. I imagine the impact at the front of the car which destroyed the crash box occured as the car settled into the ditch.You must remember that one of the objective of safety structures like a roll over bar is to absorb energy rather than to transmit it. If the bar had been twice as stiff and had not collapsed it would have simply stopped the car travelling downwards more quickly, increasing the negative g loading on the occpants necks and increasing the risk of injury. That’s why crash helmets are made of soft materials like fibreglass and foam; to absorb impact energy. A steel helmet with no padding would be stronger, but any in any impact the energy would be transmitted straight through to the skull, just as it would be if no helmet were worn. At the end of the day any safety structure can only absorb so much energy; one massive or several minor impacts can collapse the structure to the point where it no longer functions.The A frame and diagonal we sell for the Elise increases the strength of the bar in the centre and would prevent the type of collapse seen in this instance, but at the risk of less energy absorbtion as explained above. The A frame is aimed at the racing market where the likelyhood of high speed rollover accidents with several impacts to the roll over structure is considerably greater than on the public road. A roll over structure is not a legal requirement on cars sold in Europe at present. Be grateful this accident didn’t befall a 2 seater open top sports car without a roll over bar…Cheers, Nick
I think this is a very good honest un-biased report and I too can’t help feeling that the bar saved lives, after all the damage was quite horrific!No disrespect intended Kee!
When I saw the kink in the rollover bar, I wondered whether it had been caused by a side-on impact, rather than a top-down impact.Either way, I’d feel more comfortable with an A-frame, which I’m considering fitting.
quote:Originally posted by Admin5:When I saw the kink in the rollover bar, I wondered whether it had been caused by a side-on impact, rather than a top-down impact.Either way, I’d feel more comfortable with an A-frame, which I’m considering fitting.You are right the impact was firstly on the side.in responce to Nicks high speed flip theory, You cant turn an exige over at slow speeds unless you hit something solid.and one its fliping its gona flip some more.And how strong does he think alloys are when his directly on the side? They are not built to withstand impact from the side.If he had been in the car he would have a slightly different version and he would be verry woried!Kee [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
Agreed, 800kg at even 30mph going sideways into a high kerb would be enough to snap them I’d have thought.
can’t help thinking you are going after the wrong people…I’m sure you are angry…but maybe on reflection its you that is to blame…I think you walked away from a self inflicted injury - you should be thanking lotus not trying to get money out of them…is this the first time you have had an accident…either in the exige or any other car?
quote:Originally posted by stevegreen:can’t help thinking you are going after the wrong people…I’m sure you are angry…but maybe on reflection its you that is to blame…I think you walked away from a self inflicted injury - you should be thanking lotus not trying to get money out of them…is this the first time you have had an accident…either in the exige or any other car?Yep, could not agree more Steve.
quote:Originally posted by Admin5:I’d feel more comfortable with an A-frame, which I’m considering fitting.Please let us know how you get on.
Rod & IDG you are totaly missing the point!
Kee, I get the feeling that if you decide to take legal action against Lotus, you may struggle to prove that they were negligible. It sounds as if the roll bar did a reasonable job, although probably not as good as it should have.I showed the pics to some of my mates who race 4x4s (and are used to rolling them) and they suspected that the car had an impact on it’s side first which then caused the bar to kink - I suspect that Lotus will say exactly the same as Nick. If this is the case, how are you going to prove they are at fault??? I’m rather concerned that you may spend lots of money going after Lotus and be left with a big bill at the end of it… I’d suggest you carefully think this through before going ahead with any legal action…It sounds like you were very lucky not to have been seriously injured - thats the main thing and I’m sure I speak for everyone here by saying we are all relieved that you are OK. If it were me, I’d claim on my insurance and put the accident behind me…All the best and get well soon… [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]T.PS If you DO decide to go ahead, good luck mate!
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quote:Originally posted by Keenan Perrin:Rod & IDG you are totaly missing the point!Whoa there buddy! I think you meant Rod & Steve.I’m keeping an open mind on this. Personally I’m glad you’re live, acknowledge you’re the only one that will truly know what happened, I appreciate your sharing of the information and have an interest in how we can all be safe while enjoying the passion that unites us.
OK so its going to take a little longer to get the pics up - I am stranded in NY at the moment.Will pass them on as soon as I get back.Rgds
Christ, that’s a horrible crash. Indeed, makes me seriously consider a proper cage. You guys might want to check this site: http://users.skynet.be/pirardjean/elise.htm They build FIA approved cages. I’m sure there’s more out there though, in particular in the UK.Keenan, sorry man, but i have to ask. You wrote in an earlier post that Andrew @ Pit Lane Garage is the man to contact for parts of your Exige. How do i contact him?
There was some comment from Lotus that a full cage could end up passing on a lot of crash energy to the driver, particularly to the spine (but that may be a trade you’re prepared to make for a head!).Sadly Pit Lane is no more (I haven’t heard so many accolades about a garage!). Mr Whitter may be able to point you in the right direction, seeing as he set (and wound) it up.Ian [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image][This message has been edited by IDG (edited 05 July 2002).]
Thanks Ian. Excuse my ignorance, but ehm… who’s mr. Whitter?