well fairs fair
I would guess oil starvation.
did any conclusions come from evosals strip down?
I’d say BIG over-rev at some time.
Hi Johnboy,
The shell didnt look as if it had run prior to the bang up, nor was the crankpin discoloured and it didnt have any white metal build up, I think it was a rod bolt pure and simple.
Probably an overspin at some indeterminate time in the engines past.
Dave
Hi Johnboy,
The shell didnt look as if it had run prior to the bang up, nor was the crankpin discoloured and it didnt have any white metal build up, I think it was a rod bolt pure and simple.
Probably an overspin at some indeterminate time in the engines past.
Dave
Well see, but the roller rockers will always break first in a honda that gets buzzed - well before a rod spins - but the evidence will be there of stratospheric revs because 2 pistons will have hit the head - not just one.
on the hondas generally I think the oiling is as cheap and marginal as you can get - more later but just to get you heads in the sand boys thinking ;-take a look at this;-
on the left OE Rover pumpin the middle, my own all steel wire eroded wet sump pump [ in blue wax protection]- as fitted to all my wet sumped engines bar Uldis’s - note extra lobe to reduce pulsing effect of large & few [cheap] OE lobes
Finally honda k20 a2/z1 family pump, note honda has just 6 lobes
[image]> http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b323/SimonErland/L1050430-1.jpg> [/image]
I cant see any eveidence of an oiling issue, the bearing apart from being damaged when ejected is not stressed or overheated.
That said there is a bigger chance of running a wet unbaffled sump at Spa causing a problem than the oil pump itself.
You can’t say with any degree of certainty what will fail first, the rockers may fail the may not, the bolt may have failed due to a manufacturing defect or due to a buzz.
Dave
Try reading the post. I didnt say that rocker breakage was impossible, just that you can’t predict it with any degree of certainty… whether the engine is buzzed or not.
I’d say a bolt broke and I have seen hundreds of failed engines.
As to the cause, it not possible to ascertain why with any degree of certainty, especially without first hand examination of all the parts.
Dave
- but what’s this about seeing hundreds of failed engines ? - a confession??
You really can’t help yourself can you Simon.
Bernard
Please can we remain on track here guys.
Those of us who are less qualified mechanically really enjoy reading and learning from your “gentlemanly” posts.
Thank you.
Simon,
- but what’s this about seeing hundreds of failed engines ? - a confession??
You really do need to seek some help…
Evosal made it clear the engine had not been buzzed by him, who knows the history?
Dave
Your conclusions are complete non-sequitirs.
As said in my previous post that you obviously didnt read, Evosal is sure he didnt buzz it, who knows it’s history?
It could easily have been buzzed in the past, failure is not necessarily immediate, but the road to failure can well be embarked upon wiht no apparent sypmtoms, just waiting for that little bridge too far.
Dave
Simon,
How many posts does it take for you take a simple concept on board?
I know that Hondas can spit rockers and it’s a pretty simple step to realise that the engine wont run when this happens.
However there is no absolute certainty that this will happen when the engine is buzzed.
Overspinning can cause all sorts of problems in many components which are taken beyond their design limits, some can be immediate and others latent.
An overspin prior to the engine installation could easily cause a weakness that sits like a timebomb waiting to go off.
If the overspin caused a crack in a rod or bolt or added to the cumulative fatigue then it will may fail immediately or it may come back later and say hello.
If the engine is buzzed you may have no piston/head contact at all until something lets go, if it is a rod bolt then the rod/piston will obviously be set free to hit the head and eventually make a bid for freedom while its brother remains tethered and intact. The resulting impacts can cause the small end to break away since the whole piston is too massive to be ejected through the block wall.
This is a very common mode of failure on many engines and I have seen it many times
Typically when a small end breaks, the piston is first hammered into the head and the small end of the rod will flail around for a while knocking nine bells out of the piston and bore. More often than not the rod remains attached but is pretty badly scarred and bent.
I have seen this many times, two or three times recently on K engines (and before you make a side-swipe, they were not mine).
You have your opinion which is conjecture, I have mine which is also conjecture.
Continually repeating it serves no useful purpose other than to pollute the thread.
Until the engine is properly inspected you cannot say for certain and even after inspection there will be a large element of doubt as to the absolute sequence of events and their cause.
Dave
Dave, I think the problem is that this is now going to be answered by Simon (naturally with a polar opposite view) and then you will feel obliged to reply and so on.
Call me na�ve (I may only be a Northern Numpty who’s sole feat of engineering is knowing how to extract a steak pudding from the foil without breaking the skin) but you all end up like politicians: i.e. nobody believes, or no longer cares, what is being said by either party and ultimately turns off.
Now, you are both, IMHO, ruining what is has been a forum which has in the past avoided going down the same route as other where people slate each other off without ever meeting. I do understand though that some on here want to here the results and some enjoy the battling that goes on between you.
If I were to pay for another forum (seriously) where you can toss this between you, is there any chance you would all bugger off to it?
Cheers
Russ
Alternatively, David, would you consider selling exiges.com?
Russ,
If you want me to bugger off and not come back then I will.
I’ve no wish to just be a pain. If you saw my contributions to other BBSs you will see that I have never been involved in any other spats of this nature.
I would look a little at the overall contribution to the site too.
However there are times when posts reflect not just views, but make statements which are cleary incorrect and damaging to individuals and businesses and affect reputations.
On many occasions I have had to refute downright lies that have been posted here with the sole intention of inflicting damage. You reap what you sow. I agree that the various parties have now become entrenched, but It cuts both ways.
If these lies and disinfornmation cannot be replied to then casual readers of threads or those who access via search engines will lead by the nose and make incorrect assumptions.
If you allow freedom for those posts to take place then you must also allow a right to reply.
If not them it would give those third parties no option but to take some sort of action to curtail them.
Dave
Dave this is not personal, I am sure you are both very nice people and I have no wish to see anyone disappear.
If the subject could be taken elsewhere though??? Why on earth this ended up here and not on SELOC or similar I have no idea.
I am sure I am in a minority and would appreciate comments from other regulars but I stand by the offer to finance a “my engine is better than yours” forum.
And Simon please post your messages to me up here and not by PM in future, I have no interest in being sucked in to the orbit of planet Erland.
Cheers
Russ