mSV dont give a shit when it comes to their resposibility towrds the greater good concerning one individual who is playing up.
Seem it myself on a testday with them. Same guy caused three red flag in the four sessions we had and doesnt even have a word given to him, final red flag is him putting me into the barrier at over 100mph at druids. i complained they did nothing ( was too late by then anyway).
If you think you have a good case, ie they should have calmed him down earlier in the day and they said nd did nothing, then id be really tempted to go for the jugular.
Well what option do you have in life, went home had a cuddle from my daughter and fattening dinner and went to bed early.
Told the wife the next morning and she said “like [mates name] who lost two mates sky diving last month, this goes with a territory of your hobby. You’re just unlucky to have two smashes so close.” So fairly non fussed, but some sympathy would be nice dear!
Yeah last time round I could have been Kenny if roles reversed, after all our spins were carbon copies hence why the car wanted to end up in the same space.
This guy had just been watching a little too much BTCC.
I’m climbing down on mty stance on ‘racers’ after all there are MSA license holders in this thread that would always give everyone space and realise that TD is ‘just a bit of a laugh’.
Organisation however was lax at MSV, especially compared to Rockingham. No rockery truck that could lift the car, so asked to drive it into the paddock with what later turned out to be a busted upright. No medical check. The had to plead get the car moved somewhere safe until Steve Williams could collect.
I accept the financial hardship is mine to bear, I knew the risks all to well when I signed up and ventured out. However this has to be damaging to the TD industry, insurance companies will stop doing TD cover.
Are you sure its not just the track rod end thats popped? years ago when i had a bump in my elise I was convinced steering rack had gone but only turned out the be the TRE - which made me feel a lot better, even though it was going through the other parties insurance.
Must admit that I would avoid, like the plague, booking any similar days. But I do wonder how the day was actually marketed to the usual (like us) trackday punter. I only found the particular link above after some ferreting around using Google.It seems a crazy way to operate trackdays, & as mentioned, it must also potentially jeopardise trackday insurance.
Point 1.
Did an MSV Brands Indy with Track Club in November and it was full of race machinery but I felt I was very much the aggressor on track, blue flags were well used by the marshalls… 2 things occurred to me, firstly how overcrowded that track is and secondly how small the Indy circuit actually is…or maybe it’s a byproduct of too many cars.
Point 2.
Based on the first part of point 1, I actually reckon that MOST of these inexperienced racing drivers with there restricted cars do see red when some unrestricted track day enthusiast gets the better of them or is getting the better of them on a track day. How dare we, don’t we know who they are. This is a big issue IMO.
TDO’s are all the same, well I say all the same but only Jonny really lays down the letter of the law and only Jonny restricts the amount of cars on a track day…and guess what he’s more expensive, shocker!!!
There’s no excusing racers driving like plonka’s. And by the way gutted for you Tim. Again!!
One of the things we discovered is that when you have a Clio/Seat/Gineta/Ferrari/etc racer that has a load of sponsorship, that some of the time the guy that pays the bills does like to see and be terrified in the passenger seat, to see where his £xxxx is going. Can’t do that on the road, a test day, definitely not on a race weekend as time is precious, so a bit limited to track days, especially this time of the year.
I think that it all has to boil down to the standard of driving and etiquette. Shouldn’t matter what you are driving provided you are respecting others and the rules, and if you aren’t then there needs to be someone ensuring that you’re being sent home.
TBH I don’t have a problem with someone doing their ARDS test on a track day. You are not being assessed on how fast you are, more that you aren’t a numpty, and if you put anyone else in any danger, or you spin then you’d be a straight fail.
Firstly, I’m still gutted for you Tim. The car looked mint and you were seriously flying. Standing on the pitfall seeing you go flying shrieking past,…awesome
It has to be said too that you’re being astonishingly reasoned and magnanimous given lightning has effectively struck twice. I’ve not witnessed much car to car contact on trackdays but what I have done mostly seems to involve you. Credit to you bud, I reckon I would be throwing in the towel,…it would be cheaper to go racing.
I’ve thought a lot about it over the weekend as it challenges the risk profile of my favourite hobby. Here’s what I’ve concluded :
dont be shy about reporting muppets to the TDO. The Clio pulled two dangerous moves on me too. He was an accident waiting to happen. I should have reported him and demanded to know what was being done.
never ever venture out without the camera running. It’s evidence for complaints (point above) and in case the worst happens. Cameras are cheap now, it should be a trackday essential.
it should be assumed that any race car is running GPS based telemetry, it’s not about beacons or stopwatches on the pitwall any more. I’m not sure what the answer is, but maybe the burden should be on the race team to prove that no timing is being done. Gaffer over the in-car telemetry, no laptops in the pitlane etc. I dunno, something must be possible.
Racers and teams need something to disincentivise them from using trackdays as test days (especially in the run up to a meeting at te same venue). Maybe they need a different agreement with the TDO. Maybe a fine if a driving standards complaint is upheld and a heavy fine in the event of car-to-car contact. Without something like this it’s just lip service to the problem.
I for one would be interested in what Jonny Leroux’s view would be…
Road cars only TDs have the ards tests running, but these guys usually drive like saints as they’re being judged on safety rather than speed:
Ben’s right, camera’s are a must IMO, and yes I too am interested in Jonny5s view given that he understands that if TDs are seen as high risk it will dent the uptake. MSV marshalls said they pull a car out of the armco most TDs and have car to car contact 2 or 3 times a month - say no more.
As tempting as it is to loose my shit and go mental, but all that serves to do it wind myself up. Going to see what uncle Steve says, if it’s tweaked the tub well thats the end of DK03, otherwise it’s more wishbones uprights and paint.
I have one of the new Clio Cup cars at the moment, but seeing things like this is makes me seriously doubt weather the series is worth running in! At £100K per year racing with idiots like this is just a waste of time! I never understand why race teams turn up to trackdays and try to get valuable data? For shakedown/run in purposes possibly? I guess its more to do with the fact that nobody has any money and TDs are cheaper than paying £535 at Oulton Test Day for a day for example… anyway i am ashamed to see this… Feel bad for you OP.
Any race car attending a trackday; mandatory running of a forward facing camera.
In the event of an incident/complaint footage is reviewed. If no footage is available or if driving standards are demonstrably poor then you’re going home.
If a non racecar gets a complaint then TDO should have a camera/clamp to apply and the same rules apply.
There’s nowhere to hide when there’s video evidence.
Of course the ARDs pupils will drive like saints whilst taking the test…but how many just go home after the test when they have a prepped racecar to jump into? That’s a genuine rhetorical question as I don’t know the answer
In saying that, I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of the above guys do drive entirely sensibly, & with respect for other trackday attendees. However, as is the way with many things in life, a minority often spoills things for the majority.It is a real dilemma for the TDO/Circuit Owners/Insurers to sort out for the future, but I can only see it going one way…sadly.
no race cars allowed on TD’s. So nothing that is not taxed, MOT’d and insured, road registered. Trailered cars only that comply with the foregoing (sorry Gav), and nothing that has any form of timing gear in the car, or at the circuit.
Maybe some form of TDO assurance with insurance companies to verify 1? I.e. only approved TDO’s will allow cover for the likes of us road car folks. This may prove difficult in practise?
This may exclude some fancy TD only specials, but so be it. It will penalise the likes of Jonnyfox and Gav, but the advent of TD’s was for ordinary punters to exercise their road car with some degree of safety. The existing rules on driving etiquette only then need to be enforced. Jonny & Gav will have to use noisy days or test days. Sorry chaps but you are the victims here.
There’s already an emergent sector for ‘road car’ only trackdays in answer to Tim (Marra)'s suggestion. I think that many of us fall into a sector where our cars are trackday specials but road legal, I’d feel a bit of a fraud turning up to one of those days.
We should also acknowledge that the ultimate answer is to have more of a guarantee if being on track with like-minded folk…like errrr our Anglesey day. It’s not exactly oversubscribed lads so…
At the end of the day there’s not that much money sloshing around and finding a way to share with racers seems to be the harsh commercial reality.
In that case you will be fine and compliant with my criteria
As I said, some people will fall victim of the minority of racers and poor TDO’s who don’t follow their own rules
As much as enjoy driving my car on track, I have way too much £££’s invested in it to risk some racing tosser ruining it. I couldn’t be as restrained as Muu and would want a word with the offender
Ben - if racers are strapped for cash then stop racing.If they can’t afford the difference between a track day and a testing day then its time to stop. It’s like blatantly fielding a ringer (or two) in a local league game and pi$$ing all the other players off?? Except on track there is more at stake (£££’s wise).
Don’t barge in on others enjoyment. Your car fits the road car criteria, so no worries there. As said the Exiges days are well driven and not an issue.
I had thought that trailered cars should be banned too, but I imagine that would be easy to abuse.
