Post deleted by Admin5

For ages on the KingK - worlds best 4 thread, a few, mostly the honda mafia, tried to rubbish or deride everything I tried to say, despite repeatedly trying to make the point, that everything I had written in that article was drawn from a host of proffessional engine engineers - from Alan Warburton, Ian Fleming, Tim Seiple, Steve Lockett, George Houghton, Bob Allebon, Andy Roy, and Bob Lenihan at Powertrain [Rover] to Bill Hutchins at Landrover [designer of the PRT stat] to Barry Wesley at Zeus, to Gavin Harrison at Niel Brown Engineering [builder of the honda F3 and K20 BTCC engines] to Stan Hall at Judd, to Fred Hadley at Omega, to my pal and partner in all this Steve Smith at Vibration Free etc etc, - numerous serious engineers that devoted a great deal of time and effort to help advise and criticise the work before it went out.

I was amused reading that collection of names meant to impress us.

I met Bill Hutchins at Gurston Down hillclimb this year where he competes (as I do).

I had a chat with him about the K and got him to look over my PRRT stat install. We chatted about the engine and he mentioned that he designed the head.

I asked if he’d ever heard of you or your writings and guess what…


Also you describe Steve Smith as a partner. I’ve had many a conversation with him about the heavy metalled crank, and its his work. He introduced me to the idea before I’d even met you or read your paper and he’s made up a heavy metal crank for me and I’ve used it successfully for ~18 months.

So, be careful who’s name’s you drop into your postings and their relationship with you…



You have copied in an email from Bill Hutchins. Big deal.

I met the chap around April/May time this year (I forget the actual date) and I repeat HE HAD NEVER HEARD OF YOU when I asked him!

From what Steve Smith told me, the heavy metalling was his idea…do you have an engine running a heavy metalled crank? I’ve had one for 18 months.



Try to be more polite or you may regret it.

Why the use of surnames? Did you miss the manners classes at school - perhaps you public school eductated and too busy playing soggy biscuit?


Perhaps I got a little carried away there regarding the manners, but it illustrates how little is acheived by insulting people, and not using a little politeness in postings.

You annoyed me, and I don’t read forums to get annoyed, but to learn and exchange information with others who share the same interests.


“in 2003 - thats almost a whole year before you met Steve”

Point of correction… I had my bottom end balanced by Steve Smith in early 2002. SteveB met him at the same time.

But you said…

“in 2003 - thats almost a whole year before you met Steve”

Or does meeting him with regards to balancing not count as meeting him if you’re talking about a heavy crank ?

NB� on� original engine inlet stat the heater return water blows onto the stat
element and so it controls temp in a swift a proportional shocks .
this is one thing that is not the cause of problems.

the rad position is not critcal. there is normaly cold water waiting outside the
cold valve ,

when it does “open” 'crack’� control, normally max of 5-15% of cold is added to
the heater return ,to balence the temperatures,increase temp of engine 5c-10c,vs
temp drop of rad in a cruise of 50c, 10%-20% of cold flow balences this at only
0.5 -0.8mm opening.

measured reality is very different to some of the myths out there

Bill Hutchins
Technical Specialist
Concept Cooling Systems,
Land Rover.
( Tel: +44 (0) 1926 646846
: E-mail: > [email protected]

get your facts right


talking about getting facts right:

this in incorrect.

As standard the heater circuit is NEVER the main feed for the bypass.

the 12 mm thermostat housing side inlet is fed from a bypass originating at the engine outlet spout (where the temp senders are).

Only the Elise/Exige (and excluding its A/C variants) has a heater circuit which is not possible to close: all other K-powered cars have the heater circuit closed when the driver selects cool air for the cabin. if the system was as described above, the stat could never open when the heater is switched off, as there is no flow coming from the heater and blowing into the stat core…


Ok Simon let me re-itterate what I have always said:

I claim very little if in fact anything is my idea or my work in the engine’s I have built/run.

I first discovered your thread on here after it had been running for while and it was actaully referencing engines of mine to qualify your postings.

Some of the informtion you posted about my engine was incorrect.

I corrected it and also dared to suggest different approaches, since, your methods are NOT the law, there are alternatives.

I got bad mouthed by you to Dave Andrews in one of your many long duration phone calls to him where you insisted I was an Effing C.

What had I done to deserve such an inuslt? Just corrected your posts about my own engine and suggested different approaches. Hardly worth that type of insult, and it will be very interesting to meet you again, when I persue your motives for the insult given that I had done nothing even vaugely offensive.

I guess you saw my postings as rubbishing your work. I was not, just correcting things you posted about me, or the development of certain parts (eg the cam you claimed to design). And also identifying (like many did) that the majority of your information is already in the public domain and well known, but it was coming across as your information. Perhaps you never intended it to be that way, but I’m afraid it read very like that was your intent.

You made many claims of high power outputs being possible from good engineering build practices, but we haven’t seen any evidence of the high outputs, only in Uldis’ engine, and that still fell short of my “hobby” acheivement substantially in terms of torque and also missed the mark on the headline power output. You also claimed to have high output engines already in existance but provided no evidence of such engines.

You may ask why you need to provide evidence. You do if you’re a new poster on a forum with no reputation or history, but one who is ready to make claims of what you’ve done.

To get the respect of forum readers you actaully need to give some respect to their not unreasonable requests for evidence to back up your postings.

I met Steve Smith before I met you. He introduced me to the idea of a heavy metal inserted crank. No reference was made to you. I happened to meet you shortly after meeting Steve and you thrust a copy of KingK into my hands and attempted to talk me into using ChromoDuro liners, not a heavy metalled crank.

When I met Steve he discussed with me idea and benefits of heavy metal inserting a crank for my engine. Later I read your KingK paper and it did explain the issue of crank balance and counterweighting, and did talk of you producing a crank with increased counter weighting. But it had no influence on my decision to heavy metal a crank. I took the advice of a recognised professional, rather than someone who had taken information from various sources and packaged into an 11 page document.

Your paper did NOT discuss heavy metal inserting the K’s standard crank, which is what Steve suggested I do.

You ask why I should bother for a hillclimb car that needs to be light. Well, as is so typical with your posts you make sweeping statements about other’s practices and requirements without actually doing any research, consequently you miss the mark.

In fact your own KingK paper discusses the lack of proper engine balancing practiced by club level competitors. Re-read your article and you may appreaciate why I want a balanced engine - for the reasons you write about, and my own!!

If you had asked me what my requirements for an engine were, you’d have learnt that it wasn’t to be the lightest, or the most powerful, but just one that didn’t require rebuilding every 10k miles (mostly road) due to liner ovalisation (and I always used Rover liners with 3-4 thou protrusion from the block deck).

I had re-ringed and linered my engine three times before building one with a heavy metal inserted crank. Enough was enough.

My car is also a road car not one that just exists for hillclimbing. Occasionally I track it and so I don’t want to build an engine that isn’t properly balanced, one that can survive road mileage and track use.

After research I found two solutions to the liner ovalisation, one was from Steve Smith to prevent the crank flex at high rpm by correctly counter balancing the crank.

The other from Scholar - to use thicker liners that were hot honed whilst being clamped with a torque plate to simulate the fitting of a head, since OEM liners are known to flex when the head is clamped to the block, so they start off oval before they’ve even had a few thousand miles of running.

I made the choice of adding over 2kg of rotational mass to the crank in the hope that I didn’t have to rebuild the engine so frequently.

There are other ways to reduce the weight of the car, and my car weighs 630kg in competition trim.

My 1.8k using the Scholar block, omega pistons, a heavy metalled standard crank and DVAPower ported head with 1444 cams slaughtered your engine that you built for Uldis using the same spec of cam and but larger valves.

I ran my engine for over 10k and it still made the power and torque shortly before I stripped it to build my 1.9K.

The block and pistons are now running well in friend’s ~200bhp Elise.

What do I claim?

  • To have used a heavy metal crank before you
  • To have got the idea of heavy metal insertion from someone other than you
  • To have met people that you infer have reviewed your work, when in fact you have never even met them when the paper was written, and have just had a brief recent email exchange
  • To be a supporter of anyone who is trying to progress the tuning of the K series
  • To dislike those who are both attacking and impolite on forums - both to me and to others


Without wishing to stick my nose in, I have worked with Steve over a long period of time on various projects associated with his engines and cars and can confirm the facts he has set out above including Simon’s unwelcome, uncalled for and downright revolting comments about Steve’s character. I’d say that these utterances alone say more about the content of Simon’s character than I would normally wish to know.

The thing that mostly wrankles in this push-me, pull-you argument over who claims to have done what first is that Simon Erland continues to assert that he is only doing what he is doing for the good of the engine rather than for personal agrandisment. Why then does he insist on vehemently defending his position as the first to do this or that? Especially when he is proven to be plain wrong.

Surely the important thing is that the knowledge is out there in the public domain, so, Simon, please explain?

As pointed out in Steve’s post the bulk of the information in the original article is second or even third hand, I have no problem with the collation and organision of information for all to read, that is laudable, but to present it as your own is tantamount to plagiarism.

I am always delighted if any information I have can help someone out, but always annoyed if the information is used by others as if it were there own where they have there own agenda.

Just my twopenceworth


I very rarely post here or on SELOC but I do check the boards everyday… I have never met Dave, Simon, Steve, Scuffers etc but I will say that I am a ‘fan’ of both Simon and Dave’s work and a ‘fan’ of what Steve and Scuffers have been doing for the Elise…

Engine failures on the Motorsport cars made my life hell for months! After one qualifying session in the first season of the Autobytel championship I was on the phone to my girlfriend telling her how much I hated it! Why? Because engines blew up left, right and centre and we had little time to do the swaps, but no choice but to have them done… 12k pa for 90hr weeks was not compensation enough, so I went back to university and now work with the black gold…

So, the K series can be considered to be the single reason why I gave up a promising career in motorsport to model oil and gas flowing through pipelines! Why is this important, because it means that ever since then I have taken a keen interest in how the K has been devloped since then and what has been done to avoid making every other K user’s life miserable!

I started following DVA’s work through his website and through the CCC and Dave Walker articles… It seemed amazing to me that he could achieve that much power from what we, then, considered to be a piece of [censored] engine… I doubt our Minister engined cars ever achieved 200bhp… Maybe not even 190bhp… And they blew up every couple of weeks - aaaarggh!

I completely understand why Scuffers went the Honda route… It was me who mentioned to Miles Lubbock that there was an F20C engine for sale in Motoring News (as it was back then) and he said that they would have seriously looked at trying to install one… The K’s were causing that much heartache! So, hat’s off to Scuffers et al for getting it done and removing a headache…

But, hopefully this is what Simon E and Steve are also doing… For all of us! By demonstrating that a K can be made reliable! If Simon E can deliver an engine that can compete with a Honda in terms of power and reliability for 5k, then FANTASTIC!! If he can deliver an engine that makes more power than a Honda and lasts a race season or two and costs 10k, then great!

But… It’s going to take time for one of these engines to be recognised as they will need to do some serious mileage before they can be called ‘totally reliable’ and if they are road engines this could be 2-3 years to be fair! But what Simon is doing is benefitting the whole community… The way he goes about it is not always the best way, but that is ‘his’ way and I’m sure we are better off having him contribute than not…

Perhaps he shouldn’t bring up names and make big claims until we have some dyno plots and engines with 20k on the clocks… But it is done now and it is often other people that repeat these old claims and not him! We have spoken over email and from what I can understand Simon is extremely passionate about the K and that is perhaps why he gets a little touchy/angry when some people slate him/the K…

Perhaps it is time we ALL gave it a rest? I don’t own a K series anymore but I read Dave’s/Steve’s/Scuffers and Simon’s posts everyday… I never owned a pinto powered car but I owned the tuning books… I never owned a small block powered car, mini powered car, honda powered car - but I have a shelf of tuning books! I love everything by guys like David Vizard, Dave Baker (who can be at least as abrasive as Simon!), Dave Andrews, Dave Walker (is there a name theme here?)… So I love reading these threads… Except for the name calling and general off topic banter!

What I am saying is everyone deserves a little respect and Simon, going about it the right or wrong way, is only trying to help… As is everyone else, I think we all understand that… Time to end the Mexican stand off and just wait for some results… However long it takes?

Simon, let’s get some graphs up, some photos and prove the doubters wrong - It doesn’t really matter who designed what camshaft profile or who designed a heavy metal crank or who spoke to who first, what matters to most of us is that we have something interesting to read that is going to save us some money in the long or short term… King K HAS to be helping with that, surely?

I don’t have any problem with any of the information Simon presents and certainly have no wish for him to be prevented from contributing. It was originally my suggestion that he became internet aware and use the BBS as a means to make his information more widely availabe and accepted. In fact I regularly bullied him about it and put up a copy of his article on a web page for him.

However his tendency to mix fact with fiction, obscure and damn information he doesn’t like and make sweeping generalisations full of supposition, wishfull thinking and an almost childlike niaivety have caused me to make postings to do what I can to correct the errors, put right the ommissions and to tone down his outpourings so that we can all distill fact from gobbledegook.

Had this not been done incorrect information which amounts to propaganda would be in the public consciousness.

Who else do you find on here making sweeping claims, dropping every possible name to give their views credence and beating his chest on every available opportunity while also trying to silence any possible criticism however valid by churning out the same old stuff littered with innacuracy and fantasy.

I just like many, many, many, many, many others wish that he would stick to the facts, stop using blanket bombing tactics to obscure valid criticisms, stop the pointless name dropping and for once listen to other valued posters with the same degree of concentration that he demands from them.

I have some personal issues with Simon which are purely down to his unnacceptable behaviour both personally and proffessionally, I too could name-drop about those involved many of whom are very well respected and relate information that would make your toes curl, but I prefer to let Simon think hard about his actions and his motivation and perhaps modify his postings and his behaviour to the same standards as other posters.

His inability to accept the slightest criticism or to consider even for a moment and even on the slightest of issues that, dare I say it, he just might be … wrong… shows just how unsuited he is to be making contributions of that type to a public BBS.

I have never seen Simon retract a statement or insult even when it is proven to be incorrect. He is often rude and arrogant to people almost beyond belief and always refers to his ‘enemies’ either impersonally as ‘creatures’ or rudely by their surnames often in capitals, I agree this isn’t one of the seven deadly sins but it does add a degree of attrition and is bad form.

So, in summary, Simon, please moderate your postings to the facts and dont make them up to suit, also when using ‘information’ about other peoples interests, engines, businesses activities or other general information, make sure that it is accurate and complete, better still seek their confirmation/permission.


Total hypocrasy…

Welcome back


Hello there! we missed you!

Let the games begin