Total hypocrasy…
Ahhhh Simon, we were all wondering where you had got to. I was beginning to wonder if I was responsible for your rumoured suicide. Got any good K series power figures for us yet ?
Bernard
Right chaps, I’d say that that’s enough personal stuff.
Let’s get back to engines!
Simon, what’ya got?!
Ian
Simon,
I expect that Bernard will just up the anti in his normal quiet way.
Dave
It seems to me that you are the one who quit posting after bottling out of replying to Bernards challenge…
Dave
Simon,
Bernard responded to your challenge, did you respond to his?
I’m sure Bernard will be happy to enter into a dialogue with you, but it would help if you were to address him by his name since he offers you that same courtesy.
Dave
Simon,
Get your facts right or I will certainly come down on you like a ton of bricks.
No engine sets have come back from Steve without being balanced unless Steve has charged me and forgotten to do them. Since I havent been dealing with Steve for 4 years then the comment ’ the first in four years ’ is just crap.
For your information Fred Hadley advised me to run the pins directly in a honed rod and the honing was undertaken at a local machine shop, not by me. It is standard practice on a number of production engines.
For applications where RPM > 8000 is envisaged then bushing is de-rigeur and I have had a large number of sets bushed and a rather smaller number honed.
As you yourself have said I have previously taken engine sets to him well before any horseshine from you and where appropriate I will continue to do so based on my customers and my own requirements with or without your recommendation.
Do you really have nothing better to do than to run around trying to grub up information about others? for goodness sake man get a grip, you sound more like a 4th form schoolboy with every posting.
Dave
Simon, are you on drugs?
Simon,
Steve’s memory must be fading, he had a full engine set from me in April of this year, it was picked up by Steve Butts on my behalf. That’s at least one that I can easily remember that he obviously cant. He only has one set there at the moment.
Here is the full information about David Ward’s engine.
David Ward’s short stroke 1800 engine had a rod bearing failure pure and simple, in fact all of the rod bearings showed signs of heavy duress. The main bearings were pristine as were the bores/pistons and all other areas of the engine. Nothing blew up or broke, it just made a rather nasty noise. The annoying this was that for once David was blowing the opposition into the weeds.
The bearings used were the standard 1600 Rover OE bearings since no other material is avaiblable in that bearing size (his crank and rods use the 1600 journal size).
The other two 1700s hybrids have the benefit of tougher bearings that I managed to source from inside Rover, these are the AS16 material now adopted for the Trophy 160 bearings(now ubiquitous on 1800 Ks), these special bearings were produced for the 1600 VVC rally engines.
Unofrtunately the only supply of these has dried up. When the other two 1700s come up for refresh they will face a similar potential problem. Both are still going strong I’m glad to say.
At 245BHP the stock bearing material proved itself not up to the job but we had limited choice as to what to do about it; Either scrap the existing crank and rods (both steel and very expensive) or take a chance on the stock bearings lasting until the next refresh.
I have recommended using an 1800 crank and rods and VP2 bearings for the rebuild. He also had an issue with oil consumption which was down to the oil ring/land combination on the Pistal pistons used which despite the recommended modification to the ring land still managed to wind themselves out on two of the bores.
That particular ring related problem has been put right by Pistal by offering a redesigned ring which appears to completely alleviate the problem. It may be that the increased oil consumption also led to an oiling problem.
I’m not particularly happy about the single scavenge dry sump system used either especially as the dry sump tank has only 4 litre capacity but that is already installed. It is not unknown for the pressure pump to get ahead of the scavenge pump in extreme situations.
So there you have it
Dave
Yeah but, no but, yeah but…
[image]http://www.stephenpollard.net/Vicky%20Pollard.jpg[/image]
![http://www.stephenpollard.net/Vicky%20Pollard.jpg[/image]](http://www.stephenpollard.net/Vicky%20Pollard.jpg%5B/image%5D){kind=link}
Are you related to the lovely Vicky?
Simon,
David’s engine had already been balanced during it’s previous life and all of the components were carried forward from the previoud build. I have never suggested that balancing is a minor issue, simply that you are too hung up on it.
The Caterham wet sump isn’t used on David’s engine, it’s a dry sump system so baffling isnt needed, nor would it be effective given the confines of the available space, if you have a look at a Caterham installation you will see what I mean.
The decision on bearing usage isn’t completely finalised yet and I haven’t looked at the crank and rod grades since they are the balancers, when they come back I will see how they shape up and measure the crankpins, the option is still there to use the AS16/TF160 bearings if the grades indicate a clearance problem with the VP2s. As it happens I have only ever used one set of VP2 bearings on an unhardened crank and that was at the customers request. I gnerally use the TF160/AS16 bearings which seem up to the job
The cam choice on David’s engine meant that it could make it’s maximum power at a reasonably low 8000ish, what would be the point in revving it much higher than that if the necessity isn’t there, I dont think there would be any problem with reving it higher (bearing material notwithstanding), it was just unnecessary.
I do have photos of the Pistal ring problem, if you are genuinely interested the problem arises when the 3 part oil ring ring is fitted, the lower oil control scraper part of ring can flip down through the gap in the land where the gudgoen pin bore meets and brwaks through the land. This stops the lower ring from turning and it binds up and as the gap on the expander ring lines up with this it piles up on top of itself instead of asserting it’s authority on the scraper rings. When this happens all oil control from the oil ring is lost and oil consumption rockets. I have a photo or two here of the rings in that condition, again if you are genuinely interested I can dig them out.
The comdination of the ring type and the large(r) breach in the land is definitely the culprit, there is no doubt. With the fitment of the later one piece rings oil consumption is reduced to negligible levels.
It’s a bold statement to say that David’s engine is scrap when you havent examined the components. I routinely measure the bores on Scholar blocks for ovality and taper and haven’t found the large discrepancies that you speak of, I have seen these on stock liners once the head is bolted on though. My experience of Scholar blocked engines hasnt shown them to be down on power, 245BHP from an 1800 isnt too shabby and most of the others have been up to scratch when compared with the equivalent loose linered equivalents, but I would be interested in seeing your statistics relating too the ones you have.
Dare I say that this is turning into a bit of useful dialogue?
Dave
Simon, may I offer to help you.
The information you post is fasinating, and learned critism of professional outfits will always be of interest to its customers/professional customers. However, this is where your problem lies, many people here know, like, have been helped by or bought the services of Bernard and Dave. Attacking them with such vigor seriously detracts from what you are saying. It also doesn’t motivate them to share information that may complete a fuller picture (although to their credit they seem to continue to).
Your passion and knowledge are admirable, but your agression may be letting you down.
Russ has a good point on the drugs, I think you should take some 20 mins before posting!
Uniting theme - “Long live light powerful sports cars!”
Ian
And he answered my challange?
Well just sorting an EVO trial of Adrians engine for next year, love to have one of thunderpant’s slowboats to chew up!
simon
Anytime Simon, anytime, but I have said that before haven’t I and you have not come up with the goods.
It’s always “in a while”, “when the book comes out”, “next year” with you isn’t it ? Haven’t you got anything running now that produces good power ? It’s all very well critising Dave and myself but at least we have reliable engines out there with published figures.
Bernard