Poll: VHPD rebuild vs. conversion

The Oily Bits S1 Specific Topics
21

hi All,

As Chairman of one motor club and Competitions Manager for another I have to say that I think the question of originality matters. There has just been a debate on another (historic) forum on which I have potsed so I’m taking the liberty of dropping it in here (slightly modified)…

TRACKING THE CHANGES

I have fairly well-developed views on this sort of thing, particularly as in my everyday work I have to take account of eligibility of cars in competition. I wrote on the subject in ‘Chicane’ in 2002. The words are much more general than Exiges but I think the sentiments are true for what are going to be future classics (in not already there with the S1), and in particular those with a
competition history where the driver has gone on to bigger and better things (who will that be then???). I repeat some of my words here:


“Just like any other car on the road our beautiful Lotus cars are susceptible to slowly becoming ugly, inefficient and perhaps even dangerous. What about the glue and the rivets in the chassis? What about the steel suspension components? What about the seat belt mounting plates buried in the GRP, quietly rotting away? And it’s not just the steel components. What about the worn-out shock absorbers, sagging springs and ‘bushed’ bushes? What about the dodgy electrical components tired of a poor earth and years of use and neglect? All of these things, if we do not keep on top of them, conspire to make our lovely sports car a sad wreck and a poor example of the fine beast which left the factory all those years ago. It seems to me that we have two choices. We either repair or change these components as and when necessary or we allow the car to deteriorate to the point where it is good only for a complete rebuild, the breakers yard and/or for sale as parts. As far as I am concerned the latter choices are unacceptable and one which must be avoided. So, on the grounds that the preferred option is always to keep the car in good condition, it is now a question of what we replace those parts with. The genuine Lotus component or pattern and specification must be the preferred choice. If so, we may be able to claim that we have kept the car ‘original’. It’s a small step, however, from the factory fitted mild steel exhaust to the stainless competition variety - is this still an original car? How far can we go before we have a modified car? Does it matter if we paint the car a different colour, particularly if that colour was not an option from the factory? (Russ???!!!) Who can say what is an original car? And why should ‘natural development’ detract from the car’s provenance? Racing cars are a good illustration. Peter Warr once told me that during his many years as Team Manager for Team Lotus he considers it extremely unlikely that any Lotus F1 car ever competed in the same configuration twice. Natural development is just as much the right of a road car as it is a racing car. It is the owner’s choice at the time which decides the route taken. Not everyone may approve of his choice but whatever he did or does, the change is now part of that car’s history. A change of exhaust may not be seen as a significant change to the car but putting your Elan+2 body on a Spyder chassis/engine platform certainly will be.


The question is, does it matter? Well, of course it does, but why? Well, first of all it’s important to the owner because it was his choice for his car. Secondly it will matter to any prospective purchaser of the car for he will want to know exactly what it is he is buying. It is not a question of whether changing a car’s configuration is right or wrong it is more a question of whether the result is good or bad. It is a matter of history, and history matters. With a full history, any car can be ‘original’ and for all the right reasons even if it is different to the car which rolled out of the factory. If you don’t need to hide or cheat on provenance then the car is a good one.”

Personally I find the notion of an ‘original’ racing car laughable and my experience dictates that you cannot fill (historic) grids or rally fields without allowing modified or replica cars to take part. Ferrari have proved how difficult it can be to prove originality with their own historic series and many competitors have rebelled. Not everyone believes that FIA papers are worth having and many (one make or historic)clubs insist on their own historians and experts judge eligibility of cars in the club for reasons which have nothing to do with competition.

None of this may seem to be important for Exiges at the moment - they are too much ‘of the moment’ but it is encouraging to hear of people looking forward. In my own mind I have no doubt that 20 years down the road a sympathetically maintained K Series-engined car will be worth more than a re-engined and heavily modified car.

For the time being it doesn’t matter and there are endless examples of historic cars out there which were modified in period to be more competitive, more reliable or whatever. I say do what you want but whatever you do, write it down so that the car has a continuous history and then you will always have something to sell…

I think I might well keep my car with a K-series all the time it is mine…but I’m not sure!

Some of the people some of the time…

And to be topical


Have a look at this ORIGINALITY COURT CASE report from Tuesday’s Times

22

Mike - thanks for posting that. A very interesting read and some excellent thoughts. A little unexpected, to say the least, but a well written piece!

Alex.

23

Mike

As we have come to expect from you, excellent stuff, many thanks.

Personally, if I were worried about my car’s value in more than 10 year’s time, I would have stuck with “original” as far as possible (even though the S1 Exige was pretty poorly turned out by Lotus. The basics were there, but the excecution was just not up to scratch for the intended purpose- ie it was very compromised for use either on road, or on track).

I just don’t view my cars as “investments” - I buy them for a purpose. The Exige is there as my toy/hobby, & as such its purpose is to give me “enjoyment”, & at that, it has truly excelled itself beyond all my expectations. By way of explanation, I’m fortunate to now have developed/modified it to a level, which not only satisfies me, but in my opinion also to the level at which it should have been built to, by Lotus in the first place. Not only do I love the driving experience (both on road, & track), but over the past 4 years or so, I’ve also met, & befriended an incredible group of people - fellow Exigers. You just can’t put a price on that, so if my car is worth peanuts in 10 years time, so what, every penny spent will have been worth it as far as I’m concerned!

Sorry for babbling on, but thanks for listening

24

My sentiments entirely Pesky.

When talking to Alistar McQueen, he agreed it could have been better but (to quote him) “we had to stop somewhere”. So we’re only doing what Colin’s crew would have done given half the chance.

Ian

25

I believe original Elans with the replacement chassis are also classed “more desirable” than the original.

26

Surely you mean “reliable”

27

I believe original Elans with the replacement chassis are also classed “more desirable” than the original.

If you mean Lotus galvanised then yes as it is maintenance free. I don’t think the spyder version is considered less worthy as it was the only option at one time when Lotus couldn’t be bothered with owners of the ‘classics’.

Don’t times change

Tim.

28

A replacement ‘chassis’ is perfectly OK provided the old one isn’t repaired and used to build an identical car. The car with the replacement chassis should keep the same VIN for continuous history.

I know that several people who had replacement chassis were stunned to find that DVLA (as was, now VOSA)gave them a new ‘Q’ plate because DVLA considered it to be a different vehicle of questionable age. To overcome this DVLA were told that a new ‘subframe’ was fitted and this maintained the original VIN and VRN.

You seem to have missed my drift on ‘continuous developemnt’, which is OK. A new ‘subframe’ is good. It’s not original so how about ‘maintained-standard’ as a category.

A car is worth what the buyer wants to pay for it and he’ll want to know exactly what he is buying.

There is nothing wrong with having a Spyder chassis provided it’s in the history of the car…

BTW, I’m not against replacement engines or any other form of development. My only concern is the provenance (of any vehicle). I love the Honda conversion and fully agree with Rob’s sentiments. If I’d bought my car as an investment I’d be a failure judging by how much I’ve spent on it so far…

29

My two penneth…

My Elan Sprint has more mods than Six ‘The Jam’ Concerts and I think every one has made it a car which is miles easier to get on with. THE most significant improvement being new springs and shockers on the front (GAZ adjustables - never heard of em and not bothered either!). It’s transformed the handling by a factor I cant describe and as a result means I will use it more - what it was built for. Its on the original chassis and has done 68,000m.

The next best mod was throwing a mod in the canal! - ie the lumenition was recently removed in favour of good old points and she now runs like a dream - hot or cold.

From my 10 years of ownership I have only had +ve comments about it and how the mods (mostly done by the previous owners) really suit it - apart from the period britax sunroof which I struggle to get over!

I think it is necesarry to do all sorts to keep them going and just as importantly SAFE. Agree keep a good record and there should be no probs.

If you are running a concourse factory perfect machine thats great enjoy it - if not same applies

Lets face it what the hell is a standard factory car - I cant say I have ever seen 2 Elans the same! As for originality is it best to have one original with the bottom of the doors sticking out (due to striking the glass fibre moulds while the GRP was still green) or nice flush ones like my originals (gloat) ??? Webbers or Dellortos??? Blah Blah

I wont be worrying about the number of miles on my Exige or Elan when im smoke going up the crem’ chimney!!!

If you are investing - stick it in bricks. Try asking your bank manager to take a charge on your classic rather than your house when taking out a business loan - bet I know where the debenture will be going - nuff said!


[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/captaincunto/DSCF0074smaller.jpg[/image]

30

i too am a fan of keeping cars as original as possible, but i dont think that mildly enhancing the potential of a vehicle will hinder its future value too much. I.e minor brake cooling and drivetrain upgrades to enhance driveability. I

31

Lovely looking Elan. That’s a nice angle.

32

Lovely looking Elan. That’s a nice angle.

Agreed.

But what’s that big ariel on the left rear wing for?

33

Lovely looking Elan. That’s a nice angle.

Agreed.

But what’s that big ariel on the left rear wing for?

Mr P. that’s a wooden post in the field opposite!

(you didn’t do a smiley, so assumed it was a real question!)

34

Doh…

[image]http://www.tvmagazine.com.br/sattv/arquivo/minimagoo.jpg[/image]


PS How do you know it’s wooden?

35

Here’s my take on this. If we use the past as an example of what the future may hold. A friend of mine bought a Jag X150 10 or so years ago. The car had been raced at some point in its life and ended up I suppose with the modern equivalent of a Honda conversion. He found it slowly rusting away at a wreckers in NZ. He’s spent the last 10 years or so gradually buying parts to restore to its original condition. It’s easy to say to yourself what on earth was the owner thinking who replaced the engine and chopped the bodywork, but back then (sometime in the 60’s) the car wasn’t worth much and who would have thought 30 years later it would be a classic. The original engine is long gone.

So with this in mind, I’ve kept the original engine and since the Honda conversion doesn’t change anything structurally there’s no reason why it cannot be converted back to its original condition someday. So today I enjoy all the benefits of the Honda but should the need arise in the future the car can be made original again. If you put the engine to one side I believe all the conversions can be reversed easily as none made any structural changes.

36

Lovely looking Elan. That’s a nice angle.

Agreed.

But what’s that big ariel on the left rear wing for?

Mr P. that’s a wooden post in the field opposite!

(you didn’t do a smiley, so assumed it was a real question!)

FANTASTIC!!!

37

My dilema in a nutshell,
Car at the moment is at Ewelme having the front resprayed and fitted with a new front spoiler. Old spoiler had grounded a few times and was cracked at the mounting bolt holes. Also the ‘paper’ trim that Lotus, in its wisdom, fitted around the headlamp covers was torn and chipped. Ewelme are removing the headlamp covers and putting black paint trim inside covers to tidy that up. That sorts out the stone chips.
Engine was tired, after 55,000 road miles the small end bearings were noisy although the bores appear sound (will see when it is stripped) and the engine has never used much oil. I decided on the rebuild route, keeping everything standard. It will be going into a Lotus garage at Salisbury in a weeks time (after the respay). Engine will get new liners, pistons, rings, small and big end bearings, clutch (not worn out but easier to replace now), cam belt, oil seal/bearing to gearbox and a genaral refresh. There were cheaper ways of doing it and I did consider an engine replacement - but I like the car the way it is, it’s cheaper this way and it keeps it standard. I have not even done the 190bhp conversion because on the road it’s not needed.
I chose to do it this way because it’s the right way for me, but that is only my opinion others choose to do things different and that’s their choice.

38

Lovely looking Elan. That’s a nice angle.

Agreed.

But what’s that big ariel on the left rear wing for?

Nice one Mr P

Its a speare just in case the other one breaks…refers reader to sig at bottom of this post!

For info - re Originality - I just took my original servo in for a rebuild coz apparently the replacement ones are pants compared to the originals!!!

She should be just about ready to use this year as the first road salt hits the tarmac

Arse! etc…

39

VHPD definitely-its called character-thats why ive got a Ducati 748SPS not a japanese sewing machine and an 8year old 306GTI-not one of the new clone hot hatches.

40

…so few cars, so many opinions…

Great, it is, to be wise…