NA Power Figures

Next thing JSR will do for me LSD, Fidenza fly and close ratio gearset either Kaaz or something Shinoo (Sector111) just recommended Jabathingy and final drive.
I’ll post links later when home. I’ve also got a whole load of weight loss planned for over winter.

Oh and a proper map by Essex MSport I guess.

Cheers Ade, great link for the Celica engine mods.

Gareth, I’ll pass on your regards to those ‘Kev’s’. Very rich comment coming from a hardcore Nova boy! :wink:

In my experience, to get the most out of any NA setup, you need to start with a well ported head, proven results on this -see DVA’s rep, experience and booking lead time - not just the bigger is better solution, plus a lot of other bits and pieces that go with it, both manifolds, cams, springs, caps, retainers, and so much more.

Its relativly easy, but not necessarily cheap, to get a stock 1.8 K series up to 170 odd hp from 120 on standard parts, bar cams, but any meaningful gains from a 1.8 Toyota from 190ish, that alredy revs to 8500 rpm, is a whole different matter.

Shorter gearing is sooooo the way forward for revy NA engines. Ask yourself, do you really need a gearset that reaches 172 mph?

Only for that last stretch of dual carriageway on the way to Angelsey :sunglasses:

I completely agree, gearing makes a huge difference to a N/A with relatively low torque but plenty of revs.

:smiley: @Wes

Educate me here: how would shorter gearing help on a power circuit like Spa?

Jon, taken a look at your website and see your times for the Brands round. Certainly not far off for an NA S2. If you look back through the last few years Elise Trophy results you’ll see that its pretty comparable with what other S2 Exiges have been doing.

Also looking at those timings will give you an idea of how much weight you’ll need to lose, or power you’ll need to add to go much faster. Staying NA it is probably possible to get that time but I don’t think it would be through extra power.

You mention the car is your everyday drive as well, how agressive a geo are you running. I’d perhaps be looking at that, its free and see how it goes.

Oh, and on the list of mods you don’t mention the ECU. If you still have the higher cam change point suggest you get a remap as it makes the car much easier to drive and adds some mid range torque.

OK so an NA S2 is never gonna pull the limiter in 6th (172ish mph). Now ask yourself, does your car accelerate quicker in 5th or 6th. The answer is obviously 5th. So if your 6th gear had the same ratio as 5th and 1st to 5th were stacked closer, you will keep the engine spinning in the best part of the power band and the car will accelerate quicker.

The aim is to have your car just off the limiter in top gear at the end of the longest straight. anything more than that and you are not makeing the most of the power that you have. In my Audi car, even with all of the power in the world, I still ran two gearboxes, one short ratios (topped out at 150ish in top) the other longer (topped out at 188 in top)

I ran the short gearbox everywhere apart from Spa, Snetterton and Donnington (off the top of my head). It was pertty close at Oulton and Brands though with me hitting the limiter in top on a couple of crazy occasions with the short box.

Jonny check these out:

Clicky
Sector111 or Monkeywrench Racing

GEAR–KAAZ—STD
1ST—2.923—3.166
2ND—2.188—2.050
3RD—1.706—1.481
4TH—1.364—1.166
5TH—1.167—0.916
6TH—0.916—0.725

Be interesting to see the Kaaz gearset in along in the chart as well, I did consider the Jubu final drive as shown above, but I actually wanted a taller 1st and 2nd then more packed gears with a tall 6th for motorways, sadly nobody does that combination :frowning:

Was the C64 transmission manufactured for any other Toyota derivatives with different gear sets or final drives? I would be suprised if the base transmission architecture was only used for a single gear set for the 2ZZ. Maybe there’s an alternative stock final drive and output shaft?

I can tell you a lot about Ford transmissions, that’s my job, but not Toyota :slight_smile:

Wes I think you will find that the C64 is pretty much it. There is a C60 used in the celica which has the same ratios apart from a slightly longer sixth IIRC. The other 6 speed gearboxes available on the MR2 and corolla that have interchangeable gears with the C64 all have longer ratios which are unsuitable for an N/A 2ZZ.

To get some good N/A power, get a race exhaust manifold, decat and a straight through exhaust(if that is possible due to noise). Get a nice 2.75-3inch intake tube with a good filter like the APEXI. Then you must re-tune the ECU. Please note that ECU tuning make a huge difference on this engine especially in the midrange. You have to re-tune the VVT-i to get the most out of it and not just ignition timing and fuel.

If you want more power you can try a set of more aggressive cams(the stock ones already have quite a bit of duration though)and a new intake manifold maybe along with some head porting to unlock the high end a bit. New valves, springs and oil pump are recommended if you want to rev higher then 8500rpm.

Ah this is brilliant, a whole host of info.

First thing first; I do indeed have the Hangar111 GT200 remap.

Brands Hatch was a bit of a disappointment for me; I had not been there before and getting the exact line in the final complex was trickier than I thought. Interestingly Jamie and a few others who are local to the track were all complaining how slippery it was on the day - but then I guess that is to be expected when its 35 deg C and the drift cars are depositing tonnes of crap on the circuit between each round. They reckoned there was 2 seconds difference! I sure would love to go back and see what I could actually achieve now, with a clean track, clear lap and actually getting the line right.

The first thing I looked at was gearing - I figured that a reduced final drive ratio would be exactly the right way to go - looking at the price of new diffs I figured it would be the best/economical option. How wrong I was. If there are more ‘economical’ final drive options out there I would certainly go for one, though I cant justify the price of something like the Jubu kit. I have seen Quaife diffs for less than that!

I think a FD ratio of around 5.25 would be ideal, as this would give a top speed of around 142 - I think 5.0 would still be a touch too short for all but the longest of straights - I can see somewhere like Spa/Nurburgring being an issue! I am even wondering about getting one made specially…

I was thinking of getting head work done as this is relatively inexpensive, but I think without a ‘proper’ remappable ECU, gains will be limited. As has already been mentioned, 185bhp out of a 1.8 is reasonable going already.

Maybe 16" rear wheels are the way forward, as this would essentially increase the final drive ratio, whilst also reducing the rotational moment of inertia of the wheels to some extent. Shame about the loss of contact patch I would suffer though. Has anyone tried this?

Racing on a budget, what a PITA. lol

C64 is the same externals as the C60 however the C60 has a slightly taller 6th and came in the 190 Celica as standard, however the 6 speed was also available for the 140hp Celica but the ratios are much taller to account for the less revvy engine, AFAIK this was just done with a taller diff.

Hi ade

The C60 has the same FD ratio as the C64. The 6 speed used in the celica 140 / MR2 Roadster has completely different ratios and is not suitable. IMO, you want to get the C1/Kaaz or who ever is doing that gearset now because it makes the spread between 1-2 and 2-3 closer. This is especially useful for those still using a 6200rpm cam change.

FWIW, I use 225/50/15 wheels/tires on my MR2 which essentially makes the Final drive ratio more adequate but the revs still fall more then i would like in the 1-2 and 2-3 change.

My 0-160 is 12.8s (and I tried that only once) so the engine is producting quite some good power considering the car weighs about 980kg + 75kg driver.

0-160MPH :astonished: lol

I’m going with the Kaaz :slight_smile:

ahah km or 0-100mph in your numbers. i dont have the ronin engine in there.

:smiley:

I always wanted the close ratio gear set but its expensive for a car that is used mainly on the road. For about the same money I can get an inter cooled rotrex kit which is fine with the standard gearbox. :smiley: