King K article on Racecar Engineering

Well, I subscribe to the magazine, but the only problem I’ve had with the issues was this January one. Some sort of subscription mistake means they hadn’t sent it.

But I finally managed to get one copy. And scanned the article.
Thought it would be good to post, since there seem to be several different versions of it in word format (you never know if it has been changed).
A friend of mine is hosting it in his webspace, don’t know if he’ll host it forever.

Here it is (7.5MB though)


BTW, in order to clarify, the article is called King K because Simon Erland’s uncle (Spen King) designed it.

BTW, in order to clarify, the article is called King K because Simon Erland’s uncle (Spen King) designed it.

I wondered when this would be revealed - I (& some others) wondered why Simon did not declare his “family interest”(as far as I can recall), whilst he was posting on this forum.

So you knew it? (I didn’t)

That bloke is such a tit, he really does come out with some rubbish. I love the bit where he says “lower motorsport series such as F3 BTCC etc”. What an arse.

No more slagging please, let’s keep it clean.

Anyway, I don’t understand your remark. To me, I understand it as he says, perfectly valid sentence.

And that is coming from me, I don’t even follow F1, only BTCC (if any).

There are some serious technical boffins writing/editing that magazine, so if it got past them, then this article must be taken seriously! I don’t think anyone on here can claim to be a Peter Wright etc can they?

Good for him getting it published. Having it in Racecar Engineering is perhaps the highest honour for this sort of article in the public press-type publications i.e. outside of SAE papers etc.

The others can say what they like but they will have had to have been very careful about publishing this if they thought any of it was false/lies. So, I wonder if a few more people will start listening now and stop slagging it off…

As they say let he who has a better motorsport background than the editors of Racecar Engineering cast the first stone!

No more slagging please, let’s keep it clean.

Anyway, I don’t understand your remark. To me, I understand it as he says, perfectly valid sentence.

And that is coming from me, I don’t even follow F1, only BTCC (if any).

F3 is THE stepping stone to F1, forget F3000 it died a while ago, and the BTCC is the premier tin top series in the country. I personally don’t like either series but anyone who discredits them must have their head buried very deep in the sand.

You can’t blame the guy for feeling protective of his family and I can see that his precious engine has some original and interesting design features but he really does need to wake up. To profess that newer and better engines are over-engineered copies… Its like saying the Lotus 78 is better than the latest Ferrari because it was the first to use ground effect. Complete tripe.

Maybe I shouldn’t get aggravated but this article is obviously intended to be provocative. Anyway, as I have said before, if nobody argues against this rubbish then people would start to believe it to their detriment.

They are still ‘lower motorsport series’, lower than F1 in the case of F3 and DTM in the case of BTCC… You are just picking at small details because Simon obviously rubs you up the wrong way!

As for any of this being detrimental… How could it be? Does any of it damage an engine? Detrimental in that it stops people spending 10k on a Honda engine? How can this article actually effect people in a negative way?

Randy, really, just open your eyes.
I would prefer BTCC or F3 or even the JTCC, but F1 is the top, so the other ones are lesser series.
But I don’t watch F1 and am not interested, precisely because I appreciate there might be better spirit and drivers in other smaller classes (there you go, smaller classes I said it, and I’m not discrediting the series).

It is not even intended to be provocative, but informative.

Last time the posts died because anybody can defent a point only until a certain point. Someday he’ll come back to the site, but I know he dreads having to just defend himself from all these silly comments.
So, please stop, many people have said it before, it’s not like some of you are feeling it.
It’s not an attack, it’s not discraditing other series, he’s saying what has gone wrong.
And that the engine is very highly tuned and has to be treated with a certain delicacy. In fact, it rea;;y is putting out >100 BHP/L. It’s not a bad engine, whichever way you want to see it.

With people like you guys, if I was him maybe I would have given up a long time ago.
More credit to him then.

�10K on a Honda engine - firstly, it just doesn’t cost that!
Get it into context please, so that apples are compared to apples!

As previously pointed out, the Honda (& Audi) conversions include engine/6 speed gearbox/ECU/driveshafts/ancilliaries (eg alternator, starter motor etc)/exhaust manifold/fitting/warranty.

Mr Erland rubbed people up the wrong way because he slagged off the alternatives - & so he should expect a reaction. Personally I don’t give a [censored] what engine others have in their own cars, but I’m extremely pleased with my choice of Honda conversion, which cost me less than half of the figure you quote (after selling my [good order] VHPD).

People have to make their own minds up about what suits them best, & then live with the consequences of their decisions - good or bad. I’m sure that the Audi powered cars are faster than mine in a straightline, & the quality of the workmanship of the conversion cannot be questioned. But my personal preference was the Honda. I totally respect the decision of those who’ve chosen the Audi route.

You may be surprised to hear that I also totally respect those who are blueprinting their VHPDs - done properly they will be great cars, but using the “cost comparisons”, which are liberally banded about by the VHPD diehards,as justification, are just not contextually accurate.

Olive branch time - please, please lets not all fall out about this - we all love our cars to bits, & we have so much in common, so let’s have friendly debate, & not polarised antagonism

no-one watch WRC anymore then?

Drew

And I’m chuffed to bits with my Toyota power

hmm, just read it…what a waste of time.

i see why its written like that, if my old man designed it i would probably have done the same.

but, first 2 pages blame everyone else for the engine faulures and only one line says ‘despite two minor design flaws’.

i also laughed at the power to weight bit, i see both the honda and toyota engines have more power to weight than the K, all standard engines.

sorry but its not a definative artical about the K, not for me anyway.

Drew

I can understand why some people are put off this article by the gushing praise for the K series, and the way it dismisses other engines as poor imitations, but if you’re prepared to look past all that at the real content, it’s obvious there’s a lot of good info in there.
If Simon wants to help people to make their engines more powerful and more reliable then good on him.
He was unbelievably friendly and helpful towards me during my recent rebuild, although I opted not to do anything special with mine, other than balancing and careful rebuilding.
It does seem that some people here have decided after some teething troubles with their K series that they must change to a Honda, and then they feel they must defend this decision very aggressively. I respect their decisions, but I don’t feel they need to slag off the K series in such a way.
Surely Simons input is the sort of thing a site like this can really benefit from. Please give him a little respect even if you don’t like everything he says.

no-one watch WRC anymore then?

Drew

No.

They are still ‘lower motorsport series’, lower than F1 in the case of F3 and DTM in the case of BTCC… You are just picking at small details because Simon obviously rubs you up the wrong way!

As for any of this being detrimental… How could it be? Does any of it damage an engine? Detrimental in that it stops people spending 10k on a Honda engine? How can this article actually effect people in a negative way?

Yes, Simon does rub me up the wrong way and began to do so the first time he decided to pick up the phone, out of the blue, to spend half an hour persuading me that I was a complete buffoon for replacing the Rover engine I never liked with a rice cooker (or did he say boat anchor?). Maybe he was right, but then maybe 12000 trouble free and massively enjoyable miles with the rice bubbling away in the back proves him wrong? Not that I want to get into a Honda versus Rover debate because that�s been done to death and both engines have a track record that can be scrutinised to find the answer.

Of course his preachings can be detrimental. If somebody invests in engine work under the belief that he is offering some sort of miracle cure that turns their clunky VHPD into a silky smooth road rocket they may well get badly stung.

I can understand why some people are put off this article by the gushing praise for the K series, and the way it dismisses other engines as poor imitations, but if you’re prepared to look past all that at the real content, it’s obvious there’s a lot of good info in there.

What good info? All he has done is outlined a couple of well known design flaws in the Rover engine, criticised a couple of ill thought out modifications done by less reputable tuning shops and then suggested that a couple of basic performance engine building techniques. Not really cutting edge stuff.

If Simon wants to help people to make their engines more powerful and more reliable then good on him.
He was unbelievably friendly and helpful towards me during my recent rebuild, although I opted not to do anything special with mine, other than balancing and careful rebuilding.

I�m all for helping people out with their Rover engines and there are plenty of people that want to enjoy the benefits they give, it�s the way Simon goes about it that irritates me and also the fact that he doesn�t seem to have any results to back up his claims.

It does seem that some people here have decided after some teething troubles with their K series that they must change to a Honda, and then they feel they must defend this decision very aggressively. I respect their decisions, but I don’t feel they need to slag off the K series in such a way.
Surely Simons input is the sort of thing a site like this can really benefit from. Please give him a little respect even if you don’t like everything he says.

I hated my VHPD well before I heard about Honda conversions and unfortunately I had more than just a few teething problems, as have many people. Whilst I�m happy to convey the virtues of Honda engine conversions to people I�m not bothered about justifying my decision to buy one. If you want to know why I did it you can borrow the keys�

Anyway, the bottom line is that everyone can and will have there own opinions. Lets put a balanced view across though?

[quote If you want to know why I did it you can borrow the keys� [/quote]

I wouldn’t mind taking you up on this, just to see how It compares to the K, even a couple of passenger laps when were all down at Croft would be appreciated. Infact is anyone who’s had the Audi conversion going to Croft and willing to take me out for a couple laps as well.

Cheers
Dave

[quote If you want to know why I did it you can borrow the keys�

I wouldn’t mind taking you up on this, just to see how It compares to the K, even a couple of passenger laps when were all down at Croft would be appreciated. Infact is anyone who’s had the Audi conversion going to Croft and willing to take me out for a couple laps as well.

Cheers
Dave [/quote]

No problem at all… looking forward to Croft although I think I may be a bit rusty.

Uldis - thanks for posting article, makes an excellent read, whatever your view is on the K

If you want to know why I did it you can borrow the keys

Try out your car with the Jap engine yes please…


Oh, you mean the Exige, damn.







At the end of the day I don’t think anyone on here thinks their car is crap, with whatever power plant is in the back of it, enjoy.