Fair enough, will be in touch.
Haven’t you driven it yet ?
It seems that Rover liners were not used in Mark’s engine rebiuld, but non OE Chromodura ones. It doesnt surprise me therefore that the fit of these would be different in the block. We dont have the opportunity to try stock OE Rover liners in Mark’s block to see if they ‘wobble’ but they most certainly do in the two (and now three) blocks I have here.
Dave
AFAIK they were stock items, that was the whole idea from the beginning.
Maybe you’re confusing cars?
I know only a few have the Chromoduro ones and Mark is not one of them.
Err…
Cross posted from Marks’s post on Seloc…
There are a few other bits I specified such as Chromoduro liners which added to the cost but are not really that material in terms of the engine spec.
Also from another post from Mark…
I think I might still have a bit more to come from the engine as the chromoduro liners take an age to bed in by all accounts so blow-by may still be a significant factor. Time will tell I suppose.
Dave
Hi Mark, thanks for that.
We look forward to the write up on how it feels.
You can tell us now what the dyno figures were though
Dyno figures and full (very full )debate are now over on the SELOC site… HERE
To answer the question that everyone wanted answering:
"As some of you will be aware the engine was built by Simon Erland and installed by Plans Motorsport in Guildford. You may also be aware that the engine achieved a respectable 202 BHP and 146 lb.ft on the Emerald rollers first time out. (i.e. no attempts to tune the induction or exhaust have been undertaken). "
Ok, fair enough then, I was under the wrong impression.
Not going to Seloc, it sucks people’s life.
In order to ensure that I am not going mad , I took some liners to a different local engineering company who were making some valve guide pilots for me, they do precision engineering for Cosworth, Ilmor and a number of BTCC teams.
They measured a new AE liner, a new Goetze liner, A used Goetze liner and a used GKN liner that I removed from a running engine two days ago.
They could find no material difference between any of them, the AE liner was a tiny bit shorter than the others on the lower part and was around 4 or 5 microns larger (1/6th of a thou) on the lower ID than the Goetze liner. All the others were within 3 or 4 microns (1/8th of a thou) of each other. I have measured them myself a number of times.
I will be copying my findings and the various postings to my contact within AE for their response, rest assured that when I get it, it will be published here.
I have invited various of the interested parties to come and measure them personally with verified equipment I have here. So far I have had no response.
AE are not a tinpot company and judging by my contact’s reaction to the statements here will not take it lying down.
Dave
In order to ensure that I am not going mad
Dave
Far from it. In fact I think you’re a respected member of this community (& no doubt others). Some excellent responses in the face of some hostile conjecture i’d say
Tim.
I will be taking the 4 liners (Goetze new, AE new, Goetze used, GKN used) for an official measure with the results published by the company used for measurement in a statement, whatever their results I will publish them here if possible with a scan of their results so that this matter can be put to bed once and for all. As yet I have had no response to my request for the liners in question, if they arrive in time then they will also be measured.
AE have also been contacted WRT to the liner manufacture and the tolerances they specify to their manufacturer, they are BSI registered so that should give an indication as to quality. They will also be responding specifically about Simon E’s comments about the company and the quality of it’s products.
Dave
If they’re giving you the liners to measure, I would expect them to be perfect.
That is, if there are bad examples out there (quality control), it’s fairly unlikely that you’re provided with them.
OTOH, Simon may be speaking a only the bad ones.
So, the end result is very likely to be that your measurements are good, and Simon’s are bad.
Uldis,
Why not read the thread instead of making speculations?, the AE liner(s) being measured were picked at random from a large batch at my local suppliers, as were the Goetze ones without any reference to AE or Goetze, and without AE’s knowledge. I’ve already posted this information in the opening post. Perhaps you should actually read it.
If you must play Simon’s advocate, first read the relevant information, then comment. It’s not the first time you’ve posted incorrect and misleading information on this thread.
As yet AE have not responded other than to acknowledge receipt of the information. They certainly haven’t given me any liners
Since neither you nor I have seen the liners that Simon is talking about nor their dimensions, let alone measured them we cannot know what their dimensions are, or whether they are ‘good’ or ‘bad’ so let’s wait and see rather than postulate. That’s the whole point of asking for them to be made available - again and again and again and again.
Dave
So, you’re telling me that you’re going to be impartial on this subject?
Sorry, but allow me to be the (probably lone) doubter here.
The way I see it, Simon would have a partial opinion and so would you.
Now, mistakes on postings I may have done, misleading? no, at least not intentionally. I have no agenda here and have nothing to gain or lose. Just don’t necessarily believe in somebody “just because he’s been around” (I can understand that many do)
I only doubt ANY extreme positions, and am absolutely not a blind follower of any of you guys.
On the same lines, I have to remind you that I first knew about Simon when he posted here. Have never met him in person and I gave him my engine to try and prove what he said.
Be assured that if there was any issue with the engine this board will know about it. After all, if I had any bad experiences, I wouldn’t like any other to follow. But so far so good.
As I have told you before, I have received a third party (anonymous) fax of said ovality measurements and they look very bad. So have reasons to be a doubter, of ANY position.
Now, saying that I am playing Simon’s advocate, hmmmm, is that not misleading?
As you may recall I flounced out of a similar topic recently. Just to put it straight and on record I have no axe to grind with either DVA or SE.
I’ve hoped ever since SE appeared that he was right - that the Rover K is a great little engine which only needs good attention to detail and build quality to make it so.
What irks me about the whole thing is the personality bashing which has erupted around this notion. Whilst it is probably true that DVA has had some irksome flak from SE it seems that both have a common aim - building high output reliable Rover K series engines. I simply want them both to be right - if only they could pool their respective expertise to make the K that I’ll need one day into a high output yet reliable piece of (almost) original equipment… somehow I think they might end up having to shut down after successful libel and slander claims!
Quite frankly I don’t give a stuff whether somebody’s liners are oval or somebody’s bearing are run. What I want is evidence that either one or both of them can deliver but the message keeps getting lost in all the bickering. I know that DVA has built lots of succesful engines and has lots of support. I know that Uldis and at least one other have SE engines and are happy with them.
So let’s see the price list, the options and the warranties and cut the crap. Please.
I simply want them both to be right - if only they could pool their respective expertise to make the K that I’ll need one day into a high output yet reliable piece of (almost) original equipment
Sadly only one of them actually has any expertise.
AND ONLY ONE HAS A WEBSITE WITH ALL HIS STUFF LISTED AND PRICED
No need to shout, I got the message…
Uldis,
I really don’t know what point you are trying to make, every liner I have taken out of a K series has been ovalised, it’s the nature of the beast, it doesn’t mean they were oval when they went in, the ovality occurs across the thrust faces, if you knew anyhting about engines you would know why.
Frankly I couldn’t care tuppence when who met who or who did what to who. The issue is simple, are AE liners as bad as Simon E claims (not that I have seen the liners despite several requests). since your knowledge on the subject appears very limited I’m surprised that you feel qualified to comment, if you wish to continue spinning conjecture that runs contrary to information already posted then please do, it wont affect the outcome but it will expose any hidden agenda.
It’s simple really, when the liners are professionally measured by someone who’s professional credentials are beyond doubt, then you wont have to take my word for it.
Just as before I had to talk to other professionals who absilutely refute what Simon was saying and prove him a liar, God knows what his motives are, but to deliberately lie shows something well beyond ‘the sake of the ‘K’ series’.
If you want to continue digging a hole for yourself then please carry on. I think I’ll just watch and sit it out with a smile.
Dave
Whatever Dave,
I don�t claim to be an expert on the engine details and am not intending to become one.
No hole digging here, no agenda, sit and smile all you want, your issue is not with me (Jeeez!)
Read Mike’s post above. My sentiments exactly.
You seem to be reading in my post whatever you want to read. I didn�t know not being one of your blind followers made me a bad guy. Come on!
If you noticed I haven�t posted the fax I received, because I am not involved in the issue, and don�t know the credentials of that outfit. It�s up to them to post if they want.
Like you say, I’ll also watch and sit it out
Uldis,
comments like
"Erm, why?
Would he even know about this thread?
He never mentioned anything about liners here."
Which is of course rot.
And…
“So, you’re telling me that you’re going to be impartial on this subject?
Sorry, but allow me to be the (probably lone) doubter here.”
Which does of course question my integrity.
"AFAIK they were stock items, that was the whole idea from the beginning.
"Maybe you’re confusing cars?
I know only a few have the Chromoduro ones and Mark is not one of them. "
Born of ignorance of the issue and yet still typed as factual.
Lead me to believe that you have ‘an agenda’, you seem to type blindly first and then think afterwards.
Dave