K series liners, Rover Vs AE

In a recent thread I have been criticised by Simon Erland for my use of ‘non-Rover’ liners which have been described as poorly made and a bad fit. I always use AE or Rover liners when not using a Scholar block. The reason I moved to AE liners was because the Rover liners I used to use were consistently poor dimensionally and the AE liners I bought seemed better in that respect. I have done some research on AE and Rover liners and had some samples measured (to an accuracy of .00001" or .00254mm) The samples were two of each type of liner picked from a supply of 50 or so of each type.

The results are published below

type of liner … Step height … Upper OD … Lower OD

Rover liner 1… 50.012 … 87.465 … 84.094
Rover liner 2… 50.013 … 87.463 … 84.096
AE liner 1… 50.015 … 87.464 … 84.097
AE liner 2… 50.014 … 87.465 … 84.097

Stated dimensions 50.050 … 87.450 … 84.100

The results show just how close the comparison is. In no case are the liners any better or worse than each other.

This came as no great surprise to me since my investigations have revealed that the Rover liners are made by Goetze who are part of the Federal Mogul group who in turn own… AE. The Rover liners and the AE liners are made by the same liner manufacturer on the same production line to the same tolerances , the only difference between them is the type of box that they are supplied in. They are in fact the same liner…

It may be that from time to time the tolerances vary but you are just as likely to get a good or bad liner from Rover as you are from AE.

So let’s not get hung up on it, it’s just another bit of smokescreening.

Dave

popcorn anyone?

Informative disussion would be better.

Informative disussion would be better.

Dave’s post is a “showstopper” in my opinion

It’s already informative, didn’t know about the issue.

But I can still see a case when a manufacturer distributes the same item with different qualities to different people.
It all depends on the contract, tolerances requested & accepted, prices, volume, inspections, bonus malus schemes, etc.

It’s the nature of business, without knowing details, you can never be sure.
But still, it’s good to know they come out of the same factory.

Strange how the esteemed Mr Erland never replies to posts like this.

His silence speaks volumes.

Erm, why?
Would he even know about this thread?

He never mentioned anything about liners here. Don’t know about other sites, maybe he’s replied over there.

To be fair he did:-
http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=44075&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=11&vc=1

TO be fair, you could offer Simon Erland another sandwich for his picnic and he’d tell you about liners.

Ooops, too long a thread to read.
Sorry, didn’t follow that one.

And Brain, what picnic?

Strange how the esteemed Mr Erland never replies to posts like this.

His silence speaks volumes.

I suspect/am hoping he’s got fed up of people asking him to prove his rants and has gone off to try and do just that.

Ian

That’s correct Ian.

Strange how the esteemed Mr Erland never replies to posts like this.

His silence speaks volumes.

I suspect/am hoping he’s got fed up of people asking him to prove his rants and has gone off to try and do just that.

Ian

Watch this space!!

Watch this space!!

So that’s why you didn’t get to Oulton last week Don’t tell me he’s casting you a bronze cylinder head, in the shape of 300 thundering horses

[image]http://www.crossgategallery.com/jpg/erland1.jpg[/image]

Watch this space!!

So that’s why you didn’t get to Oulton last week Don’t tell me he’s casting you a bronze cylinder head, in the shape of 300 thundering horses

[image]> http://www.crossgategallery.com/jpg/erland1.jpg> [/image]

No my new engine had nowt to do with me missing Oulton. I should have my car back tomorrow and I will put some pics up of the latest mods!!

Sean…

The post was just a response to a direct criticism on this board, following my investigations if there had been a problem with the AE liner dimensions then a post would have been made just the same and I would have followed up the issues with AE.

I welcome the opportunity to see and measure the liners that Simon has spoken about since when they were supplied they were a better fit than the original Rover liners that came out of the engine. I do have some dimensions of two of the original Rover liners that were removed but they were taken by me with manual equipment and may not be as accurate as the ones posted.

If the AE liners prove dimensionally unsound and Federal Mogul/AE/Goetze have a tolerance problem then they need to know about it since it will affect Rover liners as well.

I heard through the grapevine that Federal Mogul have gone Chapter 11, but I haven’t seen confirmation anywhere so it may be just hearsay.

Dave

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050926006074&newsLang=en

So yes chapter 11, but a deal for the UK arm in admin. I think.

Is there no automotive tier 1 not really in Chapter 11

Just for completeness I have posted below the values from the two liners I measured from the engine Simon mentions, these were the original Rover liners fitted at the factory, the engine had done 4000 miles. The liners were ovalised further up their length on the lower portion and were measured on the bottom. They were badly scuffed on the thrust faces and were scrapped.

type of liner … Step height … Upper OD … Lower OD

Old liner 1… 49.971… 87.410 … 84.060
Old liner 2… 49.974… 87.412 … 84.061

Stated dimensions 50.050 … 87.450 … 84.100

These appear to be a couple of thou too short and 1.5 thou small on the lower OD. I have measured the other liners with my equipment and found my measuring instruments to be pretty much in line with the results from the professionals, give or take a smidgen of accuracy (.0002") or 2/10 of a thou.

Dave

Hmm, I assume these are my old liners you are talking about? Just for the record the liners were replaced for one reason only, liner heights. There was nothing else wrong with the liners. It was your suggestion that we try the “improved” liners and you were happy when we had done so that they represented an improved height (and at �60 per liner they should have been a “quality” product). At no time was there any suggestion to me of an issue with wear on the thrust face or damage to the old liners. In any event the replacement liners which you supplied and fitted are very definitely a problem. They wobble in the block!

I also understand that the source of the replacement liners has now been established but I’ll let Simon tell that story.