IDG's VHPD

As some may know I am the VHPD collector (in my spare time) :slight_smile:

Last year Ian’s VHPD expired at the Exige day at Anglesey :frowning:

Well finally stripped it down to find out why it failed and thought you peeps might be interested in what I have found.

Head gasket failed externally on exhaust side between cylinder 3 & 4 - water jacket to atmosphere - it was a Payen 750 and interestingly still had plastic head to block dowels.

Can see why it failed there is 0 thou cylinder liner protusion on 2 of the liners and a max of 2 thou on the others

Engine itself is in really fine nick, bores still have graet hone marks, etc

[quote=SimonE]As some may know I am the VHPD collector (in my spare time) :slight_smile:

Last year Ian’s VHPD expired at the Exige day at Anglesey :frowning:

Well finally stripped it down to find out why it failed and thought you peeps might be interested in what I have found.

Head gasket failed …

[/quote]

Are you sure ?
:smiley:

Sorry thought I was posting on Exiges.com not SELOC

Notice the smiley I added …
:wink:

:slight_smile:

Simon… you’ll have to let me have a VHPD at some point. Once I’ve financially recovered from my build, I want a spare to rebuild as a stocker at some point.

Can you let me know how to qualify as a K-series anorak,Simon.I have a spare engine,a short block and a brand-new K-series block.Am I at least on the bottom rung of the ladder?

just catching up a bit Simon and sad to see IDG’s on the list… for this.

What is he doing to recover?

replacement?
repair?
or Honda, Audi etc ?

He’s already enjoying Edwards stylie Honda power Rox with a few trackdays under his belt.

[quote=SimonE]As some may know I am the VHPD collector (in my spare time) :slight_smile:

Last year Ian’s VHPD expired at the Exige day at Anglesey :frowning:

Well finally stripped it down to find out why it failed and thought you peeps might be interested in what I have found.

Head gasket failed externally on exhaust side between cylinder 3 & 4 - water jacket to atmosphere - it was a Payen 750 and interestingly still had plastic head to block dowels.

Can see why it failed there is 0 thou cylinder liner protusion on 2 of the liners and a max of 2 thou on the others

Engine itself is in really fine nick, bores still have graet hone marks, etc[/quote]

Nice to hear that with all that punishment it was only plastic dowels and the infamous liner issue that caused my heart-rate to go so high when I didn’t know what all that white smoke was!

It did fail in a dramatic fashion.

Whatever you do, don’t let Mrs G see this!!! Sounds like fixing it would have been the cheaper option.

Still, it’s gone to the best home for a VHPD. :smiley:

Ian :slight_smile:

I was told the other day that plastic/nylon head to clock dowels were restricted to early K series engines. Is that true? Does anyone know from what date metal replaced placky?

Well mine was one of the last off the line, so I was surprised to hear that. I would therefore suggest it is safe to assume that no S1 had metal dowels as standard.

Ian :slight_smile:

My original VHPD had plastic dowels

Simon

For some reason, all the VHPDs were built with plastic dowels long after cooking K production changed to steel.

Is it worth changing the head gasket and substituting for steel dowels as a preventative measure at any stage or is it easier just to wait for the inevitable HGF?

Andy

Best waiting I reckon, as it’s worth changing the piston rings & big end bearings (for starters!)at the same time. Also probably a good time to replace the clutch! :wink:

Probably because the task of building VHPDs for factory instalation was outsourced to PTP/Janspeed so they were not factory built by either Rover or Lotus. It seems quality control may have been a bit suspect with some VHPDs but the one in my (old) car seemed to be one of the better ones in terms of both power and reliability - I’m sure one goes with the other if the thing is built properly in the first place.

Well, thanks for that. I can’t say it’s too reassuring!
Andy, don’t worry, pal, we’re both in the same boat. Worrying about it too much will put you in an early grave.Enjoy it while you can.

[quote=thommo]Well, thanks for that. I can’t say it’s too reassuring!
Andy, don’t worry, pal, we’re both in the same boat. Worrying about it too much will put you in an early grave.Enjoy it while you can. [/quote]

OK, you asked for it… Although banned from this site, what Simnon Erland (who, of course, is a great supporter of the K Series engine) said about VHPD engines is probably not too far wide of the mark…

The VHPD engine was particularly unfortunate, not only in the way it was specified and ran as an engine, but also in the perception of many, even at Lotus, that this was a Rover designed or in some sense approved engine. The history of the VHPD is complicated, but it had its origins in a brief as a competition engine for a one-make series that was proposed by Rover. Initially Tim Seipel at the Performance, Development and Calibration Department within Rover issued a brief specification for head flow rates, inlet manifold design, exhaust manifold design, initial cam profiles and a map, at this stage no work on the bottom end specification was done at all. Some dyno work was done under Tim Seiple on an engine that featured forged two ring pistons but an otherwise standard bottom end and a revised head valve and cam specification, that ran out to 180bhp.

This was done simply to initiate the project and represented the sum total of Rover�s in house involvement. The project was then handed to Janspeed to develop as an engine for the MGF Cup Series. The project was overseen by a Rover engineer, Clive Bagnall, but at no stage was any formal certification done, or any detailed specification formulated, which would have made this a commercially viable project. The commercially available VHPD engine grew out of this original MGF Cup engine, but was entirely done outside the Rover design office, and at this stage without any input from the Rover design engineers. It was a project conceived and executed by Janspeed, Minister and PTP.

The engine emerged in several variations, with differing induction systems, and maps often produced by the companies using them, i.e., Lotus, produced a map for the VHPD in the Exige and the 340 R, initially using a Gems ECU for the handful of motorsport S1 Elises, changing to an ECU from the Esprit for the 340R and Exige. This engine was beset with many problems as a result of this rather convoluted conception, and was described recently by Richard Meaden in EVO magazine as �coughing and farting at low revs, hollering in pain at high revs, with nothing in between�. This is an apposite and accurate description of the so called VHPD engine; unfortunately Meaden did not attribute the engine to PTP and Janspeed, which caused more than a little irritation at the Rover Design office.

Briefly, this engine will not idle or pick up cleanly from low revs because the throttle bodies are a clumsy reworking of parts done to cost by reusing KV6 throttle bodies from a Rover 800 � the butterflies are much too far away from the inlets and the mechanism to balance each inlet is crude. The cams are hopelessly mistimed, more than one degree too much advance on the inlet and the exhaust are retarded by more than one degree too much. The mapping is extremely poor, the engine running far too rich, all of which mean that the engine is well down on both power and torque and exhibits poor emissions and excessive fuel consumption. Added to which, the bottom end build is hopelessly inadequate. In every engine that I�ve knocked down, the stand-proud has stood at zero thou or less! A recipe for gasket failure! The thermostat location is standard! And they have all been built with plastic dowels! The crankshaft is not a Rover crank � it has been made to a Rover drawing by a French company, it has been tuftrided, and it is also very badly balanced as fitted to the engine.

The flywheel is equally badly balanced, but is also mounted to the crank with a dowel hole far too large, which means that any balancing process is entirely wasted because the location of the flywheel to the crank can never be guaranteed. In other words, the engine coughs and farts because the induction system and cams are so badly calibrated, it screams in tortured pain since the engine is so hideously out of balance and there�s nothing in between as the engine is so badly tuned as to be well down on the torque that it should produce. The engine is a total catastrophe and should never have been sold or fitted to any car and is very largely responsible for the reputation that the K suffers. It is absolutely disowned by MG Rover and Powertrain LTD.

However, and whichever way you look at it, 190bhp from a 1.8 road car engine is pretty good and with proper care they last a long time. It may have been poorly executed but the fundamental principles of the engine are fine. Whatever Erland says, the VHPD does come alive in the upper rev range. If and when the head gasket does let go you still have the fundamentals of a very neat and lightweight unit. An emerald helps, apparently, to smooth the bottom and mid range performance. One thing is true though, the need to time the cams perfectly is critical and properly timed cams make the car so much better. All 190 conversions must have the vernier pulley fitted to accommodate this. As he says, a difference of just one degree is very noticeable both in power and driveability terms.

Andy, as Steve says, just enjoy it and don’t abuse it until it is properly warmed through. I’m sure it’s a goodun you’ve got there, but I would say that wouldn’t I!

That made for very interesting reading, thanks for posting, Mike. I am extremely cautious with the engine until it is fully warmed through but I tend to think any mechanically sympathetic driver would exercise any car similarly - company/hire cars excepted, of course. I think it’s remarkable that a road car engine can weigh so little, rev so hard, produce so much power and yet is such a fundamentally old design now. The bald figures are a match for the Toyota 2ZZ-GE.

I rather like the VHPD - the stench of petrol, the hunting idle and then the sound at high revs, which is akin to the conrods hammering the tarmac. It’s all very dramatic and somehow in-keeping with the car. I am looking into the Emerald installation at the moment and will probably get that fitted to make it a little more driveable around town. Otherwise, I will continue as I am and if it goes wrong then chalk it down to experience and go to the bank manager, cap in hand…