can standard liners and head gasket take 300Bhp ?
It would appear that the block is pretty tough. I know Mahle Motorsport make a range of specially coated pistons to suit tuned engines (higher CR version for natasp screamers and low CR for big turbos) which stick with the standard MMC bores.
Has anyone seen a block thats been sleeved yet?
BC
What are the key areas to focus on pistons valves?
Normally you have to have an integrated approach to the whole thing. The valve sizes may be opened out to a certain degree in conjunction with an optimised piston shape to achieve low friction and weight with the correct piston crown shape to give good combustion and space for the valve to move (cut outs).
On the Toyota engine the valves are as big as they will go. The 2ZZ doesn’t have normal valve seats, the hard seat material is sprayed on using a laser/plasma method and is super thin. This means that no area is wasted in the head. Also, because the relatively low thermal conductivity seat material is so thin the heat passes through it into the ali (–> coolant) very easily, thereofre the valve stems dont see so much heat, they stay cooler and therefore stronger so they can be thinner (bigger throat area).
The bottom line is that you cant dont much with a 2ZZ head near the valve seats, you’re just left to clean up the ports and I dont think they’re that bad anyway.
The changes to the pistons are aimed at reducing detonation. With high boost levels the firing pressures become too much and the engine wouldn’t take much ignition advance at all. Dropping compression ratio will make the engine less efficient (uses more fuel for a given amount of power) but will allow more boost which will give lots of performance.
Normally high CRs result in low speed detonation, hence why high revving race engines (which due to their long cams dont hold much air in the cylinders at low speed - poor “volumetric efficiency”) dont mind higher compression ratios.
I think the next big thing to look at for the blown S2 is cam profile. The low speed cams are too short and just restrict the engine but the high speed cam is too long and will probably loose a lot of fresh air and fuel straight down the exhaust (poor trapping ratio).
It would be interesting to see how a blown Exige runs on a set of Piper stage 2 cams. I could imagine it staying on the low speed cam for most of the speed range again.
The other biggie on the Toyota is the crap exhaust manifold, forget CRPs and big tailboxes, there’s loads to be had in the manifold. I went for a ride in a 111R with a Janspeed manifold and it was great, it just went like a rocket all the way through and I couldn’t tell where the cam change was…
Anyway, I’m tired. Night night.
Cold air intake, Forcefed race headers, MP62 10psi my intake manifold and A/W intercooler stock internals.5750rpm cam change 10,000mi. on the blower so far…This is the real deal no need to B/S anyone…I did this for me and it hauls ass…Intake temps are never more than 15*f above ambiant.Zero detonation…
Sounds good Frank, I wasn’t trying to undermine your efforts, just a discussion about the things in the inside which make a difference. Your mods are focussed on creating the highest pressure /coldest inlet charge which is ideal. What I was talking about is how the engine then uses that dense charge to maximum effect.
I asked Forced Fed if they had any power curves off their new 4 into 1 header with the F1 style step ups (as I was more concerned about torque in the 4-6000 range than top end power). They said there wasn’t any difference in “power” but they had no curves to back it up? I just dont understand some people, talk about not reading the question. Anyway, it looks like you’ve got a good manifold there, pity no one else can buy one now?
I dont suppose you could tell me the dimensions of your intercooler core and what sort of pump you are using, I’m designing two such systems at the moment and just wanted to compare notes. What sort of core is it?
Cheers
BC
My winter project (if the ECU ever comes out) is to fit the Emerald ECU lower the cam change over point a bit and look at upgrading the injectors as they are going to have high duty cycles currently I believe they are the standard items. I think there are some gains to be had as the kit in Switzerland and Germany has to pass very tight emissions tests etc. The kit has basically the equivalent of the S to the Cup 240 � the emissions meant they had to curb the engines output in favour of the cleaner package.
What are the cc size of the standard injectors in relation to the 240 � Frank what are you running on your beast?
Frank I see you have been quite conservative on the Cam change over point is this due to concern around low oil pressure?
Hey guys thanks Bob the intercooler core is from www.bellintercoolers.com size 4.5 X 6.5 with a 9gal per min. pump using a 6 X 26 heat exchanger…The race headers have a 4ft lb torque increase over their street headers in the midrange…Jamie the injectors are 440cc. Using the stock mass air sensor, which is just maxed out at 8200rpm. So all is good…As far as the cam change I don’t know enough to screw with it more than I have at this time, but I may. I keep telling myself I’m done but then another thought pops out of my old head…
Couple of things guys…
Has anyone done the roof scoop. I’m about to place an order for the S2 Exige one from Eliseparts? and wanted to know if anyone had any experience of the change?
I have an 06 240 Cup and at Rockingham last Sunday I had what I think was a fueling problem. I’m running a Daytona induction kit and a 2ublar Ultra 8" with de cat and mil eliminator.
…so on the stop primarily, out of bends, though also on no load say on a cool down lap, the engine revs would just go flat at a point, just level off if you kept your foot in and then come back only if you lift off!
This started largely after lunch having filled up with Texaco 97 Ron Super. And began to get better on the way home after filling up on Optimax?
The various passengers I had suggested eveything from “running lean” to “supercharger problems” etc etc etc? Also I have the Daytona Carbon Induction and one of Jims fine 2ubular exhausts and did wonder whether the ECU was struggling to cope with what must be a significant increase in air through? would this cause the engine to run lean? On checking the exhaust I had “rich tea biscuit” colouration which is good though I’m told the better test is Spark plug ends?
I’m hoping its just bad fuel but I’d be interested if lanyone’s had similar experiences in any circumstances; especially in light of the known blown superchargers problem?
The car is booked in to Nick Whale on Wednesday for an initial diagnostic to see what we can see?
Aside from this I am interested in changing the manifold and have spoken to Jim at 2ubular about him coming out of Manifoldretirement to build me one to go with the exhaust. In case he doesn’t can anyone suggest an alternative manifold.
And I guess I really should get a dyno to see what its at?
thanks in advance?
Hi mate
I doubt this is it but I know a few 06 cars had issues when they fitted induction kits. I am a firm believer that on a SC car not to mess with the standard induction as it does its job very well.
Anyway Jim did sound like he was warming up to the idea. But if he does not I can recomend Bemani’s manafold its given nice gains up on the standard one and Jim knows the size etc as he is working on a de-cat sileced 3inch pipe to go with my zaust
As far as the scoop goes are you just sticking it on or are you going to get it smoothed in and painted?
Jamie, I hear your concerns on the induction and I’m going to regularly check and clean the filter.I’ll take a little look at the Bemani Manifold though if I can get Jim out of retirement I’ve got to believe that’ll be worth waiting for!
And the roof! I’m thinking of the Carbon roof and that apparently comes with all the requisite roof rubbers so initially I’m going to fit it as is and then see how we go! If its ok then I’ll get it painted pink or something
The only issue I have with induction kits is that you have to move the MAF meter from its housing in the airbox lid to a pipe usually.
Calibration engineers can spend weeks (or months occasionally) setting up the MAF meter for the specific installation. Moving to a new geometry may make it inaccurate so it wouldn’t be surprised me to find that the engine is running lean (I’m not saying it is …).
I have had duff fuel in a previous car and it isn’t funny.
BC
ITG put an air induction kit on my S and was run for 4 weeks.
On the dyno it was seen to be making it run very lean. On the same day same dyno the iTG was removed and put back to standard and the car made more power and the A/F ratio was better.
So has anyone with an S or a 240R/Cup changed their induction and stuck with it?
Additionally what exhaust are S/240 peeps running
Does anyone have both mods and if so what?
Hey guys if any one out there is interested these guys are planing to copy my set up. Pricing should be more than competitive…10psi=300bhp http://www.bellintercoolers.com/
Hey guys, just thought I’d let you know I’m now puttin out a safe 290 rwhp = 335 bph with the eaton MP62
what was the problem with your pistons ?
You still going to start a new project with FF?
Pricing should be more than competitive…10psi=300bhp
Frank, would be very interested from a quick read of this to get the exact details of what you’ve done to get the power. This months project is to up the power on my 240R. Any and all help very gratefully received!
He uses larger injectors, smaller pulleys, piggy back ECU and Franks intercooler design etc etc - Have a look on Frank’s forum http://www.monkeytuner.com/forum/index.php
For a 240R you could do with some smaller pulleys, larger injectors and larger intercooler al a GT3 concept and 255 cup and some sort of way to tune the ECU.
Smaller gains can be had by the larger intercooler, de-cat and the larger induction box as on the 255 cup.
Your main issue is the ECU - this is why Frank uses a piggy back