How big is an Eaton M62 Blower in the Exige...

Just wondering if some one could measure the length of the blower from the far end casing near the throttle to the middle of the belt and the diameters of the the pullies used on the S, 240R/CUP, bemani blower and the crankshaft so I can work out the ratios.

I’m trying to work out how close the existing installations are to the limits of the M62 unit and how to develop an upgrade path.

It would appear to me that a better cam profile and slightly lower compression ratio would be useful. It will need a full simulation really which will take a while but may be really worthwhile.

I can have a go at measuring my S on the weekend.

I have to say for me a 240 map, pulleys and complete new exhaust system (inc manifold) seems the easiest way to get 265hp. Thats what Cup cars that compete over here in Germany are getting with the above mods. The Bemani has 265 and thats a very quick car. More importantly it always has 265 coz its intercooler works!

My main concern at the moment is how to get consistent performance. The intercooler suffers from not enough air flow and heat soak.

do you think some sort of heat shield below the intercooler would help may be like the material used to shield the exhaust ?
you can definitly notice on hot days the power loss

do you think some sort of heat shield below the intercooler would help may be like the material used to shield the exhaust ?
you can definitly notice on hot days the power loss

I think it would help with the heat soak problem. However , one of the guys i met who races a cup car said they measured intake temps after the cooler of 90 degrees! The heat shield would not help in this case, you just need more cooling air, coz its the charge air which is doing the majority of the heating.

The 240R/Cup/S need either a bigger air intake, more air ducted to the cooler from another source, forced cooling from a fan for example or a water/air intercooler as on the Bemani.

Heat sheild would definately help when the car is parked in the pit lane inbetween sessions to stop heat soak though.

you think may be electic fan mounted on the back of the cooler would do the trick maybe Running all the time ?

Could possible make some sort of cowl with an electric fan to help suck the air through the scoop
ive also noticed on mine theres a huge king in the flexibible pipe between the intercooler and the roof scoop

im sure this cant help either as it must reduce air flow

Yes thats what i am thinking about. The route the air takes to the cooler is all sealed so a fan or two small fans side by side sucking through the intercooler would only be able to get air from the roof scoop which is of course cooler than in the engine bay.

I would say you would run it when you want the maximum from the car but for normal driving you could leave it off. On a track day you could run them whilst on track and leave them running for a period of time when you come back into the pits or for ten mins before you go out, so the cooler starts and hopefully remains cool.

The guys i met at Hockenheim had took 3" or 4" hose from each side intake and routed them into the side of the intercooler ducting just before the cooler itself.This had reduced intake temps by 20 degrees!

If we combined both these ideas i think we would have agood chance of solving the problem. This would allow higher boost in the future and therefore more power. For the time being though i would be happy if it would go like it goes on a cool morning, all the time. Having said that its been mega hot here for weeks and so its showing the problems in its worst light.

I am gonna start looking for two small diameter fans, the kind you get on an oil coolers or on motorbike radiators.

i was looking at using a couple of ACT-RX Ceramic bearing fans ( 0 maintenence )from the RS catalouge 492-5534
each can shift 348 M3/h of air would thought that would be plenty will also incorperate a heatshield into the col and mount it off the 4 bolts that hold the intercooler on probably will make it out of stainless ( so it looks good as well )i might even fit a thermostate so its automatic

i was looking at using a couple of ACT-RX Ceramic bearing fans ( 0 maintenence )from the RS catalouge 492-5534
each can shift 348 M3/h of air would thought that would be plenty will also incorperate a heatshield into the col and mount it off the 4 bolts that hold the intercooler on probably will make it out of stainless ( so it looks good as well )i might even fit a thermostate so its automatic

Sounds good. keep me informed i am interested in this set up aswell. I will try and find a pic of the extra ducting used by the cup guys at Hockenheim. This would give the fans more air to draw upon.

Can you post a link to those fans you plan to use?

then put in the stock number 492 4534
however im having 2nd thoughts about this fan now may go for a metel bodied version but somthing like that anyway

i would be interested to see how the Motorsport Boys do it post a pic if you can

I will dig out the pics, i have them, just not sure where.

Tell me how to post pics in the meantime…

i was looking at using a couple of ACT-RX Ceramic bearing fans ( 0 maintenence )from the RS catalouge 492-5534
each can shift 348 M3/h of air would thought that would be plenty will also incorperate a heatshield into the col and mount it off the 4 bolts that hold the intercooler on probably will make it out of stainless ( so it looks good as well )i might even fit a thermostate so its automatic

The main problem is that the size of the air intake on the roof is a joke. Guess it was designed by the styling boys. Forget the fans you mention, they will be far too feeble. The only answer is a bigger scoop, relocate the intercooler or fit a chargecooler.

Bernard

what sort of chargcooler would you recommend
do you think thats the way forward

i dont realy want to chang the looks of the car

Very simple solution
Move the intercooler to the boot take the air from the unused sidescoop and roof and use a more efficent intercooler job done

One of the reasons the intercooler is located above the engine is to keep pipework to a minimum, reducing on off throttle lag, moving it to the boot would increase this. Big airscoop has the be the answer as that’s what lotus have done on the GT3 racer and they could have moved anywhere if it was more efficent?

You would increase you pipe work a bit but this would not produce lag as pressure would still be ib the system and you are not waiting for anything to spool up. You would loose the heat sink and give yourself more space for a bigger intercooler.

Firstly what I know about the mechanical stuff is zero…but couldn’t you hook up the air con to the intercooler or the roof scoop…only on the basis that if you put a frozen bottle of water in front of a fan you get instant coldair?

go easy on me I’m in IT!

Problem is the AC automatiacally turns off when the engine is on full load - just when you would need the cooling

what sort of chargcooler would you recommend
do you think thats the way forward

i dont realy want to chang the looks of the car

Chargecooling is a lot more complicated, you’ve got to mount an additional radiator at the front and lots of extra plumbing. Pro-Alloy might be able to help, they are doing a kit for the VX220. It should be similar to what you would need. Best and simplest option is a proper scoop on the roof.

Sod the looks, it’s power we are talking about here

Bernard

Very simple solution
Move the intercooler to the boot take the air from the unused sidescoop and roof and use a more efficent intercooler job done

I have to say that does not sound that simple at all…I would just like to increase the amout of cool air getting to the cooler, i would prefer not to have to start fabricating pipework and loosing my boot. For a race car it would be a good solution, although for a race car i would do what the factory does and just make the roof scoop big enough…or do like your car and fit a air/water cooler.

We need more fresh air, you can get this from the side intakes as you suggest, but i do not see the need to move the intercooler. If i leave it where it is i will not upset any of the factory settings etc and the air i get from the side intakes will be in addition to the small amount that comes in the roof scoop…i want to get more cool air to it without modifying the roof.

Pacet do 18cm diameter fans designed for such installations as an auto transmission oil cooler, two of them would fit next to each othe and i would imagine would help. They could suck air through the roof scoop (which is too small) but more importantly they can suck air through the side intakes…see my earlier post of how some of the cup racers have done this.

Hi chaps, I just wanted to say that I’ve not abandoned this thread, I’m watching it evolve quite nicely. I think we should carry on this sort of combined effort to modify our cars together so that none of us feel like were on our own…

Anyway, yeah intercooling - its a blinking nightmare. I do a lot of development on cooling and intercooling for several major OEMs and I’d love to say that there were some really easy ways of sorting it but I haven’t found them yet…

Fans are often used behind intercoolers on cars with difficult packaging constraints although they can be self defeating too. Although they keep the air moving through the core at low vehicle speeds they will soon become a restriction as speed increases so you’ve got to be very careful about how and where you use them, they are really a last resort.

For our cars we wont be worried about slow hillclimbs with trailers etc so fans aren’t going to help, even the largest SPAL jobbies will struggle to get anything half decent at speed.

The airflow really has to be ducted onto the core very efficiently from an area which has a very large coefficient of pressure (ram air effect for want of a better word). The best CP on a cars is almost always the front number plate where it approaches 1, as you move to the upper grill on a saloon car it will drop to 0.6 and then outwards to the fog lights down to 0.4?

On the roof of the car the air pressure will probably be below atmospeheric, poss just turbulent eddies as the main flow will separate as it shears off the top of the windscreen. This is why the GT3 cars forward scoop makes such a difference.

I’ve not got much experience with the side scoops but from Bernards postings re audi in S2 it would appear that this is a good route. So my first gut instinct would be to add a large piece of brake cooling duct from the RH scoop into the chargecooler inlet duct and then to temporarily fix a GT3 replica scoop onto the roof.

The best way to test these ideas would be to take a car to a trackday at Snetterton/Donnington and stick a thermocouple in the chargecooler exit pipe to the plenum and note the readings at the end of the back straight?

The next step is to ensure that you are using the cooling are flow in the most effective manner. Intercooler cores are extremely complex beasties, there are several parameters which can be tuned to optimise the heat rejection. These include the height, width and depth obviously but also the inner tube dimensions are extremely critical. Quite often the cheapo off the shelf jobbies (Lotus one included) only have open oval tubes, these are not the most efficient but have low pressure drop and are easy to make. More expensive coolers are built up of stacks of plates and fins so the inner charge side is also finned. If you look at the chargecooler on a BMW diesel you will see such a construction. The pitch of these fins is highly influential to the performance.

There are companies out there who would love to make an optimised intercooler for us but I’d estimate that they would cost �750 each without end tanks… There are other companies who will do a fin/plate cooler with std fin pitches much cheaper but they may not be quite so effective… I’ll have to have a think about it but without any test data it will be difficult to make a decision.

The other method is air-water-air as per the Bemani. All the same optimisation can be done to optimise the fins of both the chargecooler but also the low temp rad in the nose and then the flowrate you need from the coolant circ pump… The beauty of such a system on an Exige is that you have a great source of high speed/pressure cold air…

Anyway, I’ve got work to do