I finally got the car booked into Sincs for the remainder of it’s mods last week and collected her yesterday. As some of you know from our healthy debates about A2A or A2W it already had fitted to it:
MMG chargecooler kit and Radtec uprated front rad
2bular larger bore 70mm manifold, decat and 7x24 GT3 exhaust TRD/Cup airbox and filter
After some dynoing and custom mapping the headline figures at the wheels are: 270 bhp at 8200rpm and 181.7 lb ft torque at 6613rpm.
The biggest improvement is in the midrange torque jumping to 171 lb ft torque at only 4,700 (up from 127 lb ft torque).
The car feels very strong, pulling a lot harder, a lot earlier, it’s also bloody loud…the supercharger sounding plain evil now. My son can confirm it’s a lot quicker too after being sick within 10 mins of me driving and I wasnt even toeing it (not with my boy in the car).
Wayne made a couple of interesting comments. 1st he said there would be more power if the supercharger hadnt hit it’s safe rpm limit of 15,000 rpm. Also that the combination of the chargecooler and larger bore exhaust system meant very low boost of approx 7 psi. He said it was one of the “safest” setups he’d seen with cold intake temps and low boost.
So whats next? certainly the car would make more power running at the usual modd’ed Exige S 9 psi but according to Wayne this would wreck the supercharger. Anyone confirm this?
Other than that I’d better get saving for a new clutch and grearbox…lol
270hp is great well done, mine is just a tad more but results can vary day to day even with correction on, so I doubt there is much difference
What size pulley did they fit?
As the SC system is an air pump then the indicated boost pressure is not always correct as it based on the restriction across the entire path of flow, for instance my boost pressure dropped 1psi when we fitted the new exhaust but made no other changes.
As for the possible SC pulley sizes you can go smaller than I have to get to the top speed of the MP62 charger which is 16.5k intemittent and 16k constant. However anything smaller than mine is very liable to break the ring lands on the pistons not matter what “shown” boost pressure you have.
Cheers Ade. To be honest it was reading so much about your route to more power that led me to the work I’ve done to the car so far. It’s all your fault!
Not sure what size pulley they fitted, I’ll call Wayne and find out. He said flatly that he would not fit a smaller pulley as it would increase the charger rpm beyond 15k and he wouldnt want Sincs name associated with a damaged engine, etc. Sounds too precautionary to me…after all I’m the paying customer! I wonder what an extra 1k rpm on the s’charger would return in bhp numbers, etc?
As we both have v similar mods you should see the big mid range torque figures when you get the larger bore 2bular fitted and the car mapped. I think even Wayne was surprised at the leap at only 4700rpm. Makes the car soo much nicer to drive with lots of power on tap all the time…no need to thrash it for that shove in the back.
I’m on tenderhooks now everytime i go near 3rd gear just waiting for that horrible sound I heard on your you tube horror clip!
Mine made 270hp and 182lbft at the wheels at Sincs, but with the standard fuel pump struggling.
My car has been running that power for some time now on and off track and the gearbox has survived fine (…so far). I’ve been contemplating upgrading the supercharger to the more efficient TVS Harrop, but until there is a sufficient soloution for the gearbox, 300bhp at the fly will have to do…,
Cheers. I’ve been reading about the TVS Harrop too, it sounds great. Maybe the MWR gearbox adapter kit for the MR2 turbo gearbox is the way to go, free LSD too.
You could safely run 12 psi. with the MP62 without worry, I’ve run 17 psi. before cooler 15 psi. after without any issues 2.45" pulley…I run a 2.5" pulley with my compound setup now…
The TVS 1320 is too large for the 1.8 ltr Toyota 2ZZ engine don’t believe the BS comin from the BOE idiots… These guys haven’t a clue…
The MWR E153 setup will not be out for a while since I didn’t tell them everything…
Steve, Adrian, Nick, can you post your dyno charts to compare?
AFAIK, the smaller pulley for the MP62 is the 2,9". Adrian, can you confirm?
Steve, can you please check that info with Wayne?
Does anyone know how to calculate the pulley size according to the RPM of the MP62?
Steve, how loud is it know? Is there a big difference before these mods? Nor ear plugs on a long run?
Do you think that a 7x18 or 7x22 exhaust would be still acceptable?
Finally, have you had a chat with Wayne re the Denso injectors vs the RCs? An comments?
[quote=frank]You could safely run 12 psi. with the MP62 without worry, I’ve run 17 psi. before cooler 15 psi. after without any issues 2.45" pulley…I run a 2.5" pulley with my compound setup now…
The TVS 1320 is too large for the 1.8 ltr Toyota 2ZZ engine don’t believe the BS comin from the BOE idiots… These guys haven’t a clue…
The MWR E153 setup will not be out for a while since I didn’t tell them everything… [/quote]
Hi Frank, was hoping you’d chime in. I understand that i could safely increase the psi but wouldn’t this also increase the charger rpm? I’m no grease monkey and struggling to understand the correlation between the chargers rpm and psi so any help much appreciated.
jfk - cheers. When i need a new clutch the helix one might well be on the shopping list.
jfk/francois - When I get the graph emailed from Wayne I’ll try and figure out how to post it up (!)
francois - my system was way too loud before the remap and is even louder now. If i were buying another exhaust system i’d go the 8x24 instead of my 7x24 altho i dont know how much of the extra noise mine makes is down to the larger bore. I dunno why i bothered upgrading my speakers - cant hear anything but supercharger scream and exhaust racket now. It’s fun but too much for any sort of journey and defo no good for any track that I know of.
I’ll try and find out the denso injectors ref for you…sorry forgot to get the details on the day (too excited to get my car out of Sincs and drive it).
[quote=Whiteysback]jfk - cheers. When i need a new clutch the helix one might well be on the shopping list.
jfk/francois - When I get the graph emailed from Wayne I’ll try and figure out how to post it up (!)
francois - my system was way too loud before the remap and is even louder now. If i were buying another exhaust system i’d go the 8x24 instead of my 7x24 altho i dont know how much of the extra noise mine makes is down to the larger bore. I dunno why i bothered upgrading my speakers - cant hear anything but supercharger scream and exhaust racket now. It’s fun but too much for any sort of journey and defo no good for any track that I know of.
I’ll try and find out the denso injectors ref for you…sorry forgot to get the details on the day (too excited to get my car out of Sincs and drive it). [/quote]
Francois, I’d agree with the comments above with regards to the noise. As I said on PM, before I swapped to the 8x24 silencer last year I had the 7x24 GT3 with 3" pipework and was far too loud. The 8x24 silencer is better, but I could still do with it being a little bit quieter for me if I’m honest.
Dan from sincs posted the dyno graphs last year from the ‘top toys’ day, but they don’t seem to be there anymore and I don’t have a copy to compare.
I seem to have swayed a few people over to the 300hp range, my SC pulley is a 2.9" as you suspected but any smaller without lower comp pistons and you are liable to blow it up. Don’t forget there is still risk running what we are
You really should be ok on the TRD clutch for some time (depending on how you drive) so you should not worry too much.
I’m not too sure what we will see when the new exhaust come from Jim I have something new to try lets hope it works well
PS The last bit for the gearbox is ordered should not be long now
[quote=ade]I seem to have swayed a few people over to the 300hp range, my SC pulley is a 2.9" as you suspected but any smaller without lower comp pistons and you are liable to blow it up. Don’t forget there is still risk running what we are
You really should be ok on the TRD clutch for some time (depending on how you drive) so you should not worry too much.
I’m not too sure what we will see when the new exhaust come from Jim I have something new to try lets hope it works well
PS The last bit for the gearbox is ordered should not be long now [/quote]
I must be really lucky because I’m still on the standard clutch and the cars been at this level of tune for nearly 2 years now.
[quote=Whiteysback][quote=frank]You could safely run 12 psi. with the MP62 without worry, I’ve run 17 psi. before cooler 15 psi. after without any issues 2.45" pulley…I run a 2.5" pulley with my compound setup now…
The TVS 1320 is too large for the 1.8 ltr Toyota 2ZZ engine don’t believe the BS comin from the BOE idiots… These guys haven’t a clue…
The MWR E153 setup will not be out for a while since I didn’t tell them everything… [/quote]
Hi Frank, was hoping you’d chime in. I understand that i could safely increase the psi but wouldn’t this also increase the charger rpm? I’m no grease monkey and struggling to understand the correlation between the chargers rpm and psi so any help much appreciated. [/quote] Hey don’t call me greasy…
More RPM more boost … The boys at Magnuson say the blower can be spooled up to 18000 rpm for short periods so no issues there… I don’t worry about it… But if you are on stock pistons tghen a max of 10 psi. is it…
Regarding the dyno shoots, it would be worth comparing the values according to the mods and the biggest difference I think is the bore size of the exhaust right which are:
Adrian: 2,5"
Steve: 2,75"
Nick: 3" but with stock fuel pump.
Everyone with RC 550?
I have been advised to go with Siemens Deka 630cc but no idea if it works well or not!
Regarding the exhaust, everybody comes to the same conclusion! I go tomorrow to with Lotus Club France in Magny-cours (90 cars present). I will try to get some feedback also there!
[quote=frank][quote=Whiteysback][quote=frank]You could safely run 12 psi. with the MP62 without worry, I’ve run 17 psi. before cooler 15 psi. after without any issues 2.45" pulley…I run a 2.5" pulley with my compound setup now…
The TVS 1320 is too large for the 1.8 ltr Toyota 2ZZ engine don’t believe the BS comin from the BOE idiots… These guys haven’t a clue…
The MWR E153 setup will not be out for a while since I didn’t tell them everything… [/quote]
Hi Frank, was hoping you’d chime in. I understand that i could safely increase the psi but wouldn’t this also increase the charger rpm? I’m no grease monkey and struggling to understand the correlation between the chargers rpm and psi so any help much appreciated. [/quote] Hey don’t call me greasy…
More RPM more boost … The boys at Magnuson say the blower can be spooled up to 18000 rpm for short periods so no issues there… I don’t worry about it… But if you are on stock pistons tghen a max of 10 psi. is it… [/quote]
Frank - so anything more than 300bhp at the fly, and we should be looking at new pistons? Was thinking of doing a winter build with Mahl pistons and upgraded rods.
Basically yes, you can’t run a smaller pulley (and therere more boost) than we are running (2.9") regardless of what the boost gauge reads. This means we max out at around the 300hp mark any more will require stronger pistons at minimum, but best to do the rods and oil pump while it is apart (I have considered this but the gearbox rebuild costs have stopped me so far).
As for why you don’t see the right boost figures like a turbo engine, as the SC is an air pump that every turn pumps a set amount of air rather than a turbo which compresses air till the wastegate open at a pre set pressure. If the SC engine is efficient and uses all the pumped air you will not see a high psi, it is really obvious when the lift change happens and the psi drops off a couple of psi as the engine is now using all the air you are pumping in.
To put it in perspective if you add a more efficient exhaust you will see a bit more power but oddly with a lower boost pressure…
Now that was as clear as mud wasn’t it?
