T*sser.
So you resort to abuse instead of being honest about the build and provenance of this engine.
that says everything.
simon
You’ll just have to wait for the book Simon.
“So you resort to abuse…”
And this from the man who called Steve Butts a Fcking Cnt and Dave Walker a F*cking Primadonna.
T*sser.
Read the thread you hypocritical little tw*t.
Everything you need to know about the engine’s ‘provenance’ is there.
Now go and FY.
Dave
Johnboy… spot on
Do any of the protagonists on this thread really think that any good can possibly come from reducing things to this sort of level? As much as I want to learn what is possible with the k series engine, I just hate reading this sort of abuse. I wouldn’t allow my children to get away with it. I have the greatest respect for the work that you all do, but it is hard to maintain that respect at times.
Simon - unfortunately you may have missed a golden opportunity here to rise above some of the pettiness that has gone on in the past and simple say “well done, good result”, even if it meant bettering these figures in the future.
Dave - for all your accusations of what has been said by Simon in the past, most of the vulgar language in recent threads has come from you. By contrast, Simon has been a lot more restrained in these terms of late. I accept that there are long-standing issues, but the engine development world is actually big enough for both of you. Many of us don’t actually want to see things degenerate to this level.
For the sake of those of us that don’t enjoy the slanging matches, I do hope one day the hatchets can be buried.
Well said Andrew, & thanks for posting it.
There would be no protragonists were it not for Simon’s postings.
The sole purpose behind them is to pour scorn. He has systematically insulted and derided many people who I have great respect for and has since denied his actions in an attempt to save face. He is arrogant, ruds and obnoxious. He is two faced and posts contradictory , error prone rubbish full of innaccuracy , lies, suppostion etc. purely to denigrate and try to beat his chest. Know him for what he is.
I cannot be bothered to listen to his whining any more, nor to waste good words on him.
You are missing the overall picture. Think about the postings he has made on this thread. Think now why he has made them. It doenst take much leap of imagination to understand why my patience is wearing thin.
When he decides to give respect in my direction, I may decide to reciprocate, in the meantime I stand by what I have typed. In the past I have been very very restrained in the face of blatant and scurrilous provocation. No longer.
Dave
There would be no protagonists were it not for Simon’s postings.
You are missing the overall picture. Think about the postings he has made on this thread. Think now why he has made them. It doesn’t take much leap of imagination to understand why my patience is wearing thin.
In the past I have been very very restrained in the face of blatant and scurrilous provocation. No longer.
Dave
I have frequently mentioned in the past that I believe Simon has done himself no favours with his posts online. Indeed the Simon I have met seems very much at odds with some of his online posts.
I do not think I am missing the point at all. I have read through hundreds of pages of this same or similar debate and the needle that runs through it all is plain to see. My nature is not confrontational - I work in an environment dedicated to preserving and saving lives - however, when I log on these days and see threats of who will be punching whom and who will blacken someone elses eyes etc, it provides as sense of deja vu that takes me back to school when I was about 8 years old.
You are without doubt the most experienced and well known k series tuner out there. You have earned your place. I am simply saying that neither you nor Simon do yourselves any favours by these sort of antics. You are now feeding off each other. There is a time to lay down weapons and make an attempt to clear the air all round.
Bernard seems to have found a balance in all this recently and makes his point without things getting rude or offensive. I only hope eventually that the antagonism can be resolved (as wishful as that sounds).
There is no doubt that there is expertise that each of you could gain from the other. In an ideal world I wonder what engine the two of you would produce if you worked together.
Probably something really special.
We will have to agree to differ.
If you and others are offended, then I apologise.
I have offerred the olive branch before more than once and it has has bile spat on it.
Simon has run away wounded from this and other boards in the past after pushing his sick agenda too far and being found out posting rubbish and lies.
I am not alone in my views by a very very very large margin.
When Simon gives due respect to me and others then he may see it returned.
Dave
For those genuinely interested in Simon Thornley’s engine he will be sending me in his own words a resume of the engine, who did what to what and when and the results. Following the posting of that statement he would like an end to the tittle tattle about the engine and discussion of it.
Watch this space.
Dave
Following the above posting I received this mail from Simon Thornley this morning and have posted it here at his request.
Hi Dave,
Can you please post this message on ‘exiges.com’ as I think it is now time to clear up 1 or 2 points regarding my latest engine.
First of all hello to all the genuinely interested people & fellow petrol heads.
It would seem that my engine has sparked yet another heated debate on your forum & for this I can only apologise. These forums can make fascinating reading one moment but then make your toes curl the next.
Where to begin? Well, let me start by giving you the flavour of last Thurs. visit to the Emerald rollers.
The visit was purely a follow up from the mapping session last April were the peak power recorded was 264 @ 8852 but hadn’t peaked due to me running out of bottle. Dave Walker was all up for a 9000 run but I stopped him. The engine had done only approx. 250miles.
However during the season I was regularly revving the car to 9200 without batting an eye lid so I agreed to take the car back for quick run up to see where the power peaked.
Whilst the engine was been warmed up by Dave at a steady speed I used an infrared temp gun on all 4 primaries, this showed no 1 was running significantly lower than the other 3. This was confirmed with a ‘touch on’ pyrometer and was further confirmed by the colour that the primaries turned after the April session. No 1 was ‘straw’ 2, 3 & 4 a ‘battered wife’ colour with plenty of ‘purple’ showing.
I always thought this was due to no 1 been the closest to the main rolling road cooling fan & regular compression checks during the season didn’t show up any problems so I ignored it.
I quick run up to 8800 showed a peak of (from memory) 268 with torque up slightly everywhere as I guess you would expect with some miles under it’s belt.
I asked Dave if we could swap a couple of injectors around & see if the fault followed the injector before the 9000 run. He did better than that, he flowed all the injectors plus some spares that I happened to have with me on his flow bench. The figures showed the original no 1 injector to be flowing significantly more that the others. Needless to say 4 were chosen with the same flow give or take a cc. This change had altered the fuelling to the point were it was too lean to conduct a power run so Dave had to re-scale the map.
Next bit is a bit blurred, sat on the back of my 20 year old Westfield I had the pleasure of a 9200+ run in 4th gear (too much torque in 3rd) and a thin bit of fake carbon between me and the Capri axle with the wheels doing 140mph on shagged road tyres.
As the clutch was dipped at the end of the run the flame from the exhaust, well lets just say you really needed to be there. The look on the youth opportunities lads face was priceless. My guess is that the numbers in the fuel map past 9200 were from someone’s else’s base map & were far too big for my huge injectors, the surplus fuel being ignited in the exhaust. Dave just smiled, he is truely a ‘bloody hero’. Me?, I nearly jumped off my poo !!!
The peak figure recorded was 286.3 @ 9205 with the power still climbing.
To be honest we didn’t believe it & ran the car up several more times. Even then Dave asked Karl to check that he wasn’t having a blond moment.
Lets say here and now these figures should only be used to compare against previous/future engines on the same rollers & not treated as absolute values.
With such a good result I bottled out of a 9500 run as the vibrations felt by my bum & Dave’s hand on the gear stick were getting unbearable. This is perhaps due to half shaft run out / wheel balance or in hindsight the diff nose down angle which has been constantly changed during the season to try & improve traction out of slow corners.
I am prepared to do a 9500 run next year if required. Meanwhile the engine & box are out of the car as more modifications are in the pipeline.
Now then !!!
Lets clear up a few things that have been posted recently by a certain individual on YOUR forum.
Lets be very clear on these points please:-
I can categorically state that I have never worked for NAC (Nanging) in any capacity since the collapse of MG-Rover. Nor have NAC given me or exchanged any engine parts, END OF.
I’m told they gutted the old East Works & even took the swarf & dust back to China as ‘it could be useful’.
It’s claimed that a former colleague of mine informed the said individual of this, well all I can say is either he was misinformed, mischievous or indeed misquoted.
I can also categorically state my latest engine is a 1.9L not a 2.0L. END OF.
Also this engine has never been run with a so called Touring Car head. END OF (not yet anyway !!!) The current head is a DVA ultimate high port design. All hand ported & with proven flow results.
As for the Cams, all I can say is that the Piper ID number quoted means nothing to me. I know the cams by duration & lift only. I will state that they are Piper Cams & the inlet & exhaust profiles are not identical but no more than that. If it wasn’t for a certain individual these would not be secret. I’m sure large company such as Piper respect client confidentiality so people can only guess, END OF.
Ok, now let’s give out some credit to a few people who were involved in this project:- in no particular order:-
A huge thanks to DVA (Dave Andrews, aka Oilyhands)
Without Dave holding my hand this project would have been still born. Respect to the big man, who IMO is the true K Series tuning guru. Nuff said.
It was Dave who not only did the head work he was fundamental in the bottom end design. He alone came up with some lateral thinking which solved the piston valve contact v compression problem which had dogged us throughout.
He also arranged for the block & piston machining & did countless dummy builds to establish clearances, etc.
Thanks also to a good mate for the time spent alloy welding & only charging beer money. You know who you are and you’re a bloody artist / sculptor with that torch.
Also thanks to Dave Walker (Emerald) who unlocked the potential. A true legend, Nuff said.
There are several more individuals & several companies that I also would like to thank but unfortunately they have asked me not to name them as they don’t want to be contacted by a certain individual. But thanks anyway guys.
Now there it is, I’m getting bored now (sorry) but it had to be told.
So guys, I will now ask Dave A not to respond to any more questions directly about my engine’s specifications and I’m sure he will respect this. Hopefully this will help to keep your forums free of wasted postings.
Sorry to say the power plots will not be published in the near future.
All I’ve got to do now is wish Simon Erland well with his future builds.
I also hope my latest result hasn’t made him cry on the phone like it did back in April (obviously allegedly, how am I to know? I wasn’t there, perhaps I’ve been mis-informed by someone) Sorry if I have.
I also wish he would change his screen name, King K Series is (up to now anyway) a bit misleading don’t you think?
Sorry couldn’t resist. Perhaps I need to grow up. I do deep down know, ‘I’m going to have to wait for the book’.
Come on guys lets all pull in one direction & move on.
Anyway go ahead & prove us all wrong. Won’t we all look pratts eh!!! but I promise I will be the first to offer my congratulations.
I will however take this opportunity to repeat my request of some time back, ‘Please do not ever contact me again’. I really have nothing to say to you. Thanks.
If you’ve read this far without falling asleep then I thank you.
Over & out,
With respect to all.
Simon Thornley.
Nuff said.
Great results, Dave and Dave. Nice to see something to (hopefully) clear up all the issues.
Well done all !
We will have to agree to differ.
If you and others are offended, then I apologise.
I have offerred the olive branch before more than once and it has has bile spat on it.
Simon has run away wounded from this and other boards in the past after pushing his sick agenda too far and being found out posting rubbish and lies.
I am not alone in my views by a very very very large margin.
When Simon gives due respect to me and others then he may see it returned.
Dave
Great results Dave! And you owe no one any appologies!
Thanks to Simon Thorney for providing the above write-up… cool
Mega impressive engine and results.
“So guys, I will now ask Dave A not to respond to any more questions directly about my engine’s specifications and I’m sure he will respect this. Hopefully this will help to keep your forums free of wasted postings.”
FYI Simon Thornley 'phoned me and offered to send the above statement which is entirely in his own words.
Considering your reluctance to answer direct questions, your hypocrisy is beyond belief.
Now let’s move on.
Dave
I have made no claims about anything, it’s just your warped agenda that seems to want to refute things that have never been said. How transparent you are.
I have never denied credit to anyone, it’s Simon’s engine and it is therefore up to him to give credit where he belives it is due, not me.
If he wants to keep details confidential that is up to him, considering how you have lied about conversations with him (and others) in the past, you shouldn’t be too surprised.
You are clearly obsessed with everything I do and need to come to terms with your problem.
Most people have read the details of the engine and it’s output and are happy with the information that was freely given. Only YOU have decided to generate a smokescreen and try to use this as an opportunity to accuse and denigrate. How utterly pathetic it looks.
Your targets are those who have shown your rhetoric to be empty and who dare to offer an alternative approach and in most cases you have been unable to better their results other than in your imagination.
Who gives a jot which cams were used? or who first used them? You have used cams, TBs, valves, guides, pistons, etc.etc. etc. etc. that have been specified in the past by others, and barrel loads of information from me and many others who you now deride.
Where is the credit to these in your postings? What an insufferable hypocrite you are.
You are just a time waster.
I can’t be bothered to spend any more time on your whining.
Come back when you have something useful to add…
Dave
Simon, try for a minute to be honest with yourself.
No mention was made on this thread of you, your work, your engines or their results. It wasn�t until you posted lies and made up information on this thread in an attempt to belittle that any reference was made to you.
I have made no claims or denials that are not based in proven fact.
It seems that any posting made here in which my name is mentioned is met with a posting from you where you try to find some imagined wrongdoing for which you can criticise me. How utterly pathetic.
Even something as simple as posting the results of a RR session (something which you seem unwilling to do) has you all in a flap trying to find something to criticise me over. You cannot help yourself can you? How utterly pathetic.
Even when your rubbish is refuted by the owner of the engine in question in no uncertain terms you have to make snide remarks hinting that I can�t be trusted and have made it all up. How utterly pathetic.
Considering your proven propensity to make up quotes from third parties and lie about peoples opinions of me that is a breathtaking piece of arrogance and indeed stupidity. How utterly pathetic.
There are very very few parts of Simon�s engine that are pure Rover. If Simon believes credit is due enywhere he is old enough to decide for himself, it is none of your business.
You have become utterly obsessed with me and everything I do since I asked you never to contact me again. It is this that is behind your quite ridiculous postings full of lies and inaccuracies. How utterly pathetic.
Just take that on board and get over it.
Dave