Feasibility of a Chinese 2L K-series (N-series)

If the KingK article is right most issues with the K-series are now known and can be dealt with (some at some cost). I was wondering with the knowledge now available on the K-series, will it be possible for the Chinese to mass produce a cost effective 2-litre version of it?

The plastic dowels were replaced already under Rover and the liners fit was tightened up also with the correct stand proud. Further more the thermostat can be moved and a new multi layer gasket was already developed. So what more exactly is required for a 82-82.5mm bore 2-litre K-series (N-series) that can be tuned to 200bhp+ for normal use?

Are the required liners for a reliable 2-litre performance K feasible for cost effective mass production? Further more is it possible to have a lightweight and balanced for up to 8500rpm crank for a 2-litre, again suitable for cost effective mass production?

Not a cat in hell’s chance!

Who would use the engine (apart from the Chinese), bearing in mind the “green issues” new engines must contend with?

I was wondering with the knowledge now available on the K-series, will it be possible for the Chinese to mass produce a cost effective 2-litre version of it?

Nah, the Chinese can’t even make the LED’s work reliably

Sorry TAXI (or should that be Dave/Johnboy )


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Not a cat in hell’s chance!

Who would use the engine (apart from the Chinese), bearing in mind the “green issues” new engines must contend with?

AFAIK the N-series in the MG TF LE500 is Euro IV compliant. Suitability for future emission regulation is unknown to me.

There might be some scope for using a few of the major components, blocks, head castings etc. but from I have seen and heard the quality is not outstanding.

Dave

There might be some scope for using a few of the major components, blocks, head castings etc. but from I have seen and heard the quality is not outstanding.

That would be unfortunate, I was hoping that, possibly with some help from former Rover engineers, they would be able to hone out the last complications. A reliable, cost effective, mass produced 2L K-series could be an option to turn around the spiralling weight increases with the Elise/Exige.

an option to turn around the spiralling weight increases with the Elise/Exige.

Simple - S1 Elise or Exige with a Honda (or Audi if that’s your choice).

The K is now effectively dead as a long term prospect RIP

Bull pesky

have now coleected 5 dead hondas, 3 that have come out of Elise’s

and there are a whole raft of new parts that make K a far more appropriate proposition than any conversion, let alone the 2 tonne honda/audi jokes.

Yeah, but when Simon, when ???

Bernard

Bull pesky


have now coleected 5 dead hondas, 3 that have come out of Elise’s

and there are a whole raft of new parts that make K a far more appropriate proposition than any conversion, let alone the 2 tonne honda/audi jokes.

Time will tell, Simon, who’s talking bull (Domecq? ).

My point is that there will inevitably be more & more K series going pop over the next 12-18 months, as Elises/Exiges with them, rack up the miles. Just how many of those people do you think will be queueing outside yours & DVA’s workshops for rebuilds, & how many could you both cope with? I’m of course assuming that “the book” will not be published in the above timescale, but even if it is & folk want to build their own engines, will the parts be available “off the shelf”?

The last 3 years have proved a resounding success for both the Honda, & Audi conversions, for the ordinary road/trackday punter. When it comes to actual Elise/Exige racing, the Hondas (plus Steve Williams’s Duratec & Gav’s Toyota) have reigned supreme.

You may not like it, but the perpetual arguments between you & DVA have turned dozens & dozens away from the K series. The majority of people I encounter tend to “side” with DVA, when assessing your online “discussions”, & not just because of the facts (or lack of them) being bandied about.

I (& others) find it very hard not to respond to your posts in the same manner as you write them. If you hadn’t/didn’t critiscise others in the way you do (both publicly & privately), you would have gained general respect.

So far, you have been all piss & wind.

The “fact” that you’re now accumulating knackered Hondas, to sit at the feet of your ever growing mountain of knackered K series proves nothing - & in fact, your undoubted forthcoming dissertation about how crap the Honda is, will largely be ignored.

Note to participants, can we keep it on topic this time please?

KingK what do you think about the Chinese K-series (N-series?). I can imagine not much information is available, but Dave’s remark about quality of components, makes one doubt if they could get the tolerance right, let alone balancing issues on a high revving 2L?

As far as a 2L is concerned, you don’t need that to have the bettering of a honda - the " base " 1.8L tune is now 250 bhp+ which is well past an oe honda output - and 30/40kg lighter.

Simon

Is it in a Lotus, is it in the UK, how much does it cost, how many are installed, & where are the dyno plots?

Or will we all have to wait to see it “in the book”? If so, when will “the book” be available?

And please don’t dwell upon weights, it’s been proven time & time again that the figures you quote are misleading, when comparing a pre & post Honda conversion in an Elise/Exige.

PS Taxi - it appears you need to contact the Chinese direct to persue your topic interest, so I’ve taken the liberty of posing the above questions to Simon - hope you understand.

no i think the k series is only a stopgap however they will still use it as a domestic 1.4
but the engine they intend to use will be a good modern replacement imo
http://www.petronas.com.my/internet/corp/news.nsf/24F01A9E1040218948256ABF00275C65/38670DE37555E4CD48257217002EE449?OpenDocument

Simon

First of all the easy bit, weights - pre & post conversion weights are all that matter, & you know that the figures you quote are misleading using that criteria.

Secondly, until you produce actual facts & details of installed engines, you will not be taken seriously by the majority of people - love it or hate it, that’s the way it is going to be, because you’ve made one hell of a rod for your own back in that respect. You seem to want it all ways - you have been downright disparaging towards any alternative to the K (& even about some Ks!), whose performance/costs etc are openly available, but on the other hand you steadfastly refuse to offer your product up to public scrutiny, whilst making all sorts of claims about them. Your claims may well be true, but until you substantiate them… If you now have 17 engines out there, presumably with satisfied customers, then surely there are dozens of dyno plots available to back up your claims? Why aren’t they published?

I personally do not have a vested interest in this debate, & I certainly do not have any financial interest in any of the alternative engines/conversions. I’ve got a Honda conversion because I like it (& fortunately it has lived up to my expectations, & served my purposes extremely well), & not for any other reason, such as pub talk performance figures.

Finally, are there any of your 16 1.8Ks in any Lotus’s’ apart from the one that is/was in Sean’s? How many are in Lotus race cars?

The ball is in your court to justify your claims

…was in Sean’s?

Was being the operative word.

Bernard

The last I heard, Nanjing were interested in the 2L but did not own the rights, and did not have an example of the engine. At the point of the breakup, only 5 2L blocks had been cast and 3 machined

How does a 2L block differ from a 1.8L one. I mean since the liners already seem to almost touch each other, I can’t see them increasing the outer diameter of the liners without increasing the bore pitch, which would almost require a complete redesign? Or is is reinforced to cope with the increase loads?


Shanghai on the otrher hand owned the rights and the drawings but had no intention or interest in producing it - they were much more interested in the 2.9L KV6.

Well if Shanghai sells it to Nanjing and make a few bucks, both would be happy.

One may arrive, Ks certainly will arrive in huge numbers - far more than any hondas in years to come in the UK

Yes, but hope the quality (materials, tolerance and balancing) is usable.


As far as a 2L is concerned, you don’t need that to have the bettering of a honda - the " base " 1.8L tune is now 250 bhp+ which is well past an oe honda output - and 30/40kg lighter.

For after market and racing yes, but for stock Lotus’ having a light weight model with the torque of a 2L would significantly enhance the driving experience for normal road use for many buyers.