Myths are busted??? you got half the power I did without remapping the ECU and according to the guy whose done more Lotus tuning than Lotus your AFR are out of whack.
Looking at those before/after dyno’s it looks like your have less of a torque curve between 2k and 5k rpm with the 4-1? but more between 5.5k and the limiter?
I’d say the jury is still out on this one.
[quote=blacktoy]Myths are busted??? you got half the power I did without remapping the ECU and according to the guy whose done more Lotus tuning than Lotus your AFR are out of whack.
Looking at those before/after dyno’s it looks like your have less of a torque curve between 2k and 5k rpm with the 4-1? but more between 5.5k and the limiter?
I’d say the jury is still out on this one. [/quote]
Not sure on that really, the point is that the re map boys have said you cannot fit a 4-1 without a custom map and this proves you can. myth busted!
As for what Frank is saying about AFR’s my 260 has very similar AFR’s to Johns with a standard exhaust so I am not having that. Sorry you can say what you like about Lotus tunes but they would not sell a dangerous one.
Is it a full moon???
[quote=blacktoy]Myths are busted???
Looking at those before/after dyno’s it looks like your have less of a torque curve between 2k and 5k rpm with the 4-1? but more between 5.5k and the limiter?
I’d say the jury is still out on this one. [/quote]
Stop and take another look …
Expand the image and trace the lines on the graphs … all 8 of them !!
Closer inspection will tell you that at first glance you were mistaken ?
THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE IS THE GAIN !!!
" half the power that you did ?"
Well you got 271 … not 287 … now I’m no professor of mathematics , but even I see an error in your calculations ??
In addition what boost pressure are you running ? As I’m still on standard .
I love debate … but … keep the playing field true and level (as I have).
I post findings to help fellow owners make an informed choice on which route to follow in order to achieve their goals …
It’s not a pissing furthest contest by any means …
As I posted weeks ago , if by fitting a 4-1 proved unproductive and took power away I would post my findings …
Posting things like “having less of a torque curve between 2000 and 5000” is incorrect and needs addressing…as clearly between 2000 and 5000 the traces show a substantial area under the curve .
Does it not ?
Cmon Blacktoy … were all on the same team ?
[quote=seriou
slylotus]Is it a full moon??? [/quote]
Dave … they have seen nothing yet ???
Keep tuned folks …
[quote=jfk] STOP PRESS*
Lotus recall all 260 cars due to their chief engineer being drunk in charge of his laptop …
It was found that , in time , ALL factory 260 mapped cars had a terminal software issue … when the ambient temperature rises above -1 degrees the resulting simultaneous explosions will trigger a war between Britain and America … Good god I had a dream about this 
Frank I gotta love ya …but … sometimes dude you are like a poodle with the postmans leg … no letting go !@@! [/quote]
Dude I’m more like the Pit Bull with the Postmans throat in my mouth…
I am so gonna laugh and bring this post back to life as soon as your motor pops with those lean numbers…sorry but start saving your pennies it’s gonna be motor time after a few hot track days… Unless you drive like a little school girl… :whistle:
There is no Brit making more power with a 2ZZ powered Lotus that I know of then I am…Dude those A/F ratios suck egg…someone needs to get back to school…
What are you doing a 5 sec. dyno pull ?
Put some real load on it with a 15 sec. pull and listen for detonation between 4,400-6,400 rpm. Tuners tryin to sell ya something will do all sorts of little tricks to make the numbers “you want to see”…
That car is dangerously lean in the mid-range and if it were tuned buy an out of work Lotus calibration engineer, well then you know why…
Frank , I’m loving this banter … but how do you explain the fact that my readings with the 2bular are richer than the stock readings on the same dyno ??
In addition …if the stock readings on all the 260 cars are as lean as you say, then why have we seen no blow ups?
As always Frank , I appreciate your input … just sometimes you puzzle me !
And a 15 second pull ?
The car stays in one gear for around 2 seconds so what is the purpose of that ?
The pulls and video are up … posted on here …
I would say … yes about 5 seconds …
you can see for yourself …
there is no doubt you have vast knowledge in tuning the 2zz …but sometimes I think your AFR criteria are more appropriate to your 600 bhp motor and not to our 300 offerings …
yes as outputs go up (thro the roof in your case) things need to go richer …
keep it coming buddy 
[quote=frank]Tuners tryin to sell ya something will do all sorts of little tricks to make the numbers “you want to see”…
[/quote]
Not at all Frank … I believe I’m as beligerant as you , and as such don’t believe BS …
Tuners have sold me nothing … never will …I choose what to add .
Hence the journey to and from dyno land …
It’s stood me in good stead !I
The dyno pull should be in fourth gear for 10-15 sec from 2,500-8,500 rpm if it is less than that the dyno operator is giving you what you want…“numbers”…
10-15 seconds is so that the tuner can get a broader picture of what is really happening at sustained loads much like pulling a steep grade… You want max loading to know where the limits are…Why do you think the OEM boys tune in Death Valley during the summer ?
Hey all I know is that’s how I do it and I have never blown a motor due to the tune being bad…
Appreciated …
Our,s was indeed done in 4th gear at 115 mph .
But. I simply fail to see why 15 sec ??
Also , our dyno man couldn’t give a flying f**k cos he wasn’t in any way affiliated to any of us …
I know this is subjective , but , the dyno place we were at
Was … and I personally say ’ a very professional outfit ’
Years ago I was into RX 7’s and stuff and I was in my element there as there were cars from the 80 s thro to big Skyline s
What ever but if you are looking for numbers have fun but if you are tuning you make longer pulls with load so that the A/F ratios at each rpm are defined and not just a tiny little blip.
The dyno is a tool but you need to know how to use it… It’s sustained loads that kill an engine, remember anyone can tune for numbers…
JFK, was it mapped down the road from CN’s at WGT by Pip? He did my Fiesta rally car on twin 40’s years ago, did a great job. A bit old skool at the time, no printouts but a good result on stage.
Just to make things clear the cars were not mapped they are running the Lotus 260 map, the dyno is a local hub dyno and has nothing to do with Chris Neil’s or Lotus. They are actually an RX7 tuning company.
Boothy
Im quite shocked by some of these replies, esp Frank’s.
We are just going round in circles and the point THAT THE CARS (ALL 3 OF US) ARE RUNNING THE LOTUS 260 MAP must mean that all 260 OEM exiges are about to go pop then, according to Frank’s comments.
Frank is this what you are suggesting?
Has anyone taken their oem RGB or cup 260 on a dyno yet, that could post up some AFR findings??
Whats the spike at 4500-5000rpm on the AFR graph??? Goes very very weak there!!!
[quote=MarkS2s]Im quite shocked by some of these replies, esp Frank’s.
We are just going round in circles and the point THAT THE CARS (ALL 3 OF US) ARE RUNNING THE LOTUS 260 MAP must mean that all 260 OEM exiges are about to go pop then, according to Frank’s comments.
Frank is this what you are suggesting?
Has anyone taken their oem RGB or cup 260 on a dyno yet, that could post up some AFR findings?? [/quote]
I was planning on dropping mine on the dyno soon - happy to provide base data - from my bunker of course !!! 
Spike is just the cam change they all do that …
Was the AFR taken with a wideband probe shoved in the exhaust or bolted into the manifold correctly?
I have seen wildly different figures by not using a bolt in one, you still running a cat or not?