We have run the car with Pagids and Hawk pads. We have not run with upgraded rotors however. Brakes are not good for the track in our opinion and need to be upgraded. We would like to try the car with upgraded rotors and pads to see if that is adequate for most track guys. We will have a set up soon that uses Alcon rotors front and rear.
Brett.
Beleive me, get some decent discs on there and they will be more than adequate for any track use. If you don’t beleive me then get a copy of the Exiges day vid and have a look for yourself how the standard brake calipers can perform.
Hmm, my take is that they’re getting so poor results on the brakes across the pond because:
-the federal Elise is heavier.
-some tests carried could have been done with the original pads, which are sh!te
-correct bedding procedires have not been applied
-a combination of the above factors and the fact that thatthe colder temps here works in our favour.
But even if we think they’re overkill it’s an alternative route, and I’m sure many newcomers are going to get something like that, especially not being in the circle and not knowing how to make the std calipers work.
And then there’s people just wanting bigger disks and wheels.
Whether they need them or not, there seems to be a market there.
Have you seen those German Elises/Exiges? There’s a website, can’t remember which.
They showed some Exige with 18" rears and 17" fronts!
What people end up doing is putting these massive front calipers on then locking up thefront wheels everywhere and puting it down to the fact their brakes are sooo good!!
Still I’m sure the Alcon calliper is another choice for a 4 pot on the front rather than the AP one’s… You could still mount them on 295mm discs I guess
Hmm, my take is that they’re getting so poor results on the brakes across the pond because:
-the federal Elise is heavier.
-some tests carried could have been done with the original pads, which are sh!te
-correct bedding procedires have not been applied
-a combination of the above factors and the fact that thatthe colder temps here works in our favour.
But even if we think they’re overkill it’s an alternative route, and I’m sure many newcomers are going to get something like that, especially not being in the circle and not knowing how to make the std calipers work.
And then there’s people just wanting bigger disks and wheels.
Whether they need them or not, there seems to be a market there.
Have you seen those German Elises/Exiges? There’s a website, can’t remember which.
They showed some Exige with 18" rears and 17" fronts!
Our stock car weighs in at 1975 pounds (895 kg) and 1995 pounds (905kg) with our turbo package equipped. This plus the fact that the temp at the track is 95 F makes our car a little underbraked compared to the S1 model cars which weigh around 1600 pounds.
We are hoping that rotors as well as pads will make a good upgrade for the majority of our customers. However every Race 400 package car is getting the Alcon kit as standard. Bigger rotors, better calipers, better pads, better suspension, and good sticky tires all add up to better braking. Our Alcon Evo package proved just that with record stopping distances with just our upgraded front 6 piston kit, good suspension (Ohlins) and sticky Toyo RA1 tires. I expect the Elise package to do even better with 1400 less pounds top stop!
What people end up doing is putting these massive front calipers on then locking up thefront wheels everywhere and puting it down to the fact their brakes are sooo good!!
That is very true. That is why we take rotor temps, spend days at the track testing different compound pads, different air gapped rotors, change pistons sizing in the calipers etc etc… That way when you receive the product it has been thoruoghly tested and engineered to work. Not just slapped together.
First of all 400 BHP is really not difficult to achieve with the right combination, this is a motor built by a specialist who has many countless years of experience and should the power figures not be believed that is fine, it is not my car so i have no right to post anything or give details of the build, however the results speak for themselves, running under 11 seconds in a car which is driven to and from the track, races on street tyres and has been running the same motor for over a year without a rebuild is not easy. I realised a long time ago that someone on the internet always knows better so sometimes you have to agree to disagree
The car was purchased from me with the intention of converting it to it’s current spec and beyond, it is not a track racing car it was built to do the job it’s doing and it’s doing it very well. It is in fact sweeter on the road than my k series, which is annoying. On the track though it is a different story but it’s different strokes for different folks.
Std setup and big HP does not work on the track, I have tried it and 2 laps is about it. You approach corners so much faster, and have to scrub off alot more speed. So yes even with decent pads it will stop, but bigger gives more consistency and longer time before fade, I stress this it does not brake more just for longer.
And remember even the non regular posters also might know a thing or two about conversions and upgrades, it’s strange but just might be true
You are very right, 400bhp is very easy to achieve with a 2l turbo… briefly. Also 11sec is no big deal, I would expect my car to be pretty close to that with little more than 200bhp. In fact I think that is the sort of time Ian Wilson got from his N/A Honda??
Back onto brakes, I�m not saying you are doing all the wrong things and, although I�ve never tried any personally, I have heard that Alcon callipers are very good (if a little expensive). However, they are massive overkill for what you are using them for. On the race car I drive we are going for bigger callipers all round now but not for any performance benefit, only so we don�t have to change the pads during the 24hour race we have coming up. Also, given the choice, I would MUCH sooner go for bigger rear callipers instead of front.
You are very right, 400bhp is very easy to achieve with a 2l turbo… briefly. Also 11sec is no big deal, I would expect my car to be pretty close to that with little more than 200bhp. In fact I think that is the sort of time Ian Wilson got from his N/A Honda??
Back onto brakes, I�m not saying you are doing all the wrong things and, although I�ve never tried any personally, I have heard that Alcon callipers are very good (if a little expensive). However, they are massive overkill for what you are using them for. On the race car I drive we are going for bigger callipers all round now but not for any performance benefit, only so we don�t have to change the pads during the 24hour race we have coming up. Also, given the choice, I would MUCH sooner go for bigger rear callipers instead of front.
400 horsepower at the wheels is easily achievable all day long on a stock Evo 2.0 liter motor. Our Lancer Evo VIII MR produces 520 horsepower in track (road course)configuration on a bone stock bottom end. Our Race 400 Elise produces 400 flywheel horsepower all day long, in race(road course) trim for more than a few minutes. Nothing special about 400 horsepower from a 4 cylinder motor and making it live. Now 800 horsepower, that’s a little more difficult, but our drag prepped Honda produced that amount from it’s 1.8 liter motor. It only lasted 10-12 passess before needing a tear down.
Hi Brett
Off topic I know but any chance you could post on a new thread an update as to what will be on offer from you guys this side of the pond as I contacted Prodrive and they seemed to contradict you on offering heads etc.
Thanks
Jamie
You are very right, 400bhp is very easy to achieve with a 2l turbo… briefly. Also 11sec is no big deal, I would expect my car to be pretty close to that with little more than 200bhp. In fact I think that is the sort of time Ian Wilson got from his N/A Honda??
Back onto brakes, I�m not saying you are doing all the wrong things and, although I�ve never tried any personally, I have heard that Alcon callipers are very good (if a little expensive). However, they are massive overkill for what you are using them for. On the race car I drive we are going for bigger callipers all round now but not for any performance benefit, only so we don�t have to change the pads during the 24hour race we have coming up. Also, given the choice, I would MUCH sooner go for bigger rear callipers instead of front.
400 horsepower at the wheels is easily achievable all day long on a stock Evo 2.0 liter motor. Our Lancer Evo VIII MR produces 520 horsepower in track (road course)configuration on a bone stock bottom end. Our Race 400 Elise produces 400 flywheel horsepower all day long, in race(road course) trim for more than a few minutes. Nothing special about 400 horsepower from a 4 cylinder motor and making it live. Now 800 horsepower, that’s a little more difficult, but our drag prepped Honda produced that amount from it’s 1.8 liter motor. It only lasted 10-12 passess before needing a tear down.
Brett.
Please, please stop making me laugh… get your engine on a dyno and then start talking about power. Honestly… mapping a 400bhp engine on a rolling road is not really possible.
Hi Brett
Off topic I know but any chance you could post on a new thread an update as to what will be on offer from you guys this side of the pond as I contacted Prodrive and they seemed to contradict you on offering heads etc.
Thanks
Prodrive will be here next week for a meeting to go over our stargety for the UK market. I will report back as will they on what we come up with. Thanks for the interest.
Just to add to my previous comments… I did have some respect for the ‘Forcefed’ conversions…I don’t any more. Turbo charging is not that simple…
You are joking …right?? We own a dyno and use it extensively to test all of our products. We then data log on the street and track to fine tune our set ups. What are you talking about it not being that easy to make 400 horsepower on a 4 cylinder?? It is that easy with the right components and tuning. We can make 400 horsepower on an Evo VIII with simple bolt ons. With dyno sheets to prove it as well as lap times at major US tracks. My daily driver Mitsu was making over 450 horsepower on a stock engine all day long. The Toyota lump needs to be built extensively to handle these outputs, which we do with Crower Rods, Mahle Pistons etc etc… Then apply a Garrett GT30R turbo tuned for 15 psi and you have 400 horsepower. Very, very simple. Not sure what you find hard to believe about any of this?
Do you need dyno sheets, in car video, magazine coverage to change your mind? Let me know as I have all of the above. As I stated earlier, 400 horsepower is not difficult. The 800 horsepower we made on our drag prepped Honda was a little tougher to come by, and a lot less reliable.
Dyno sheet from Sport Compact Car Magazine of our Sport 275:
Also 11sec is no big deal, I would expect my car to be pretty close to that with little more than 200bhp. In fact I think that is the sort of time Ian Wilson got from his N/A Honda??
Your 200 horsepower will get you low 12 second timeslips at around 114mph if your car weighs 1750 pounds with driver. Not a 10.9@135mph.
Having driven our car again today with 400 horsepower I am confident that we will get close to Jasonr’s times with our heavier US spec car. I think we will miss the mph by about 5mph. More likely a 130mph trap for our car, depending on the surface. Should still be good for a 10.9 1/4 mile. Our car is not a drag race car, but a track day special.
Naturally the Car and Driver event is televised, so any doubters will be able to download the test to see what times our car does. www.caranddriver.com
We have Prodrive arriving next week and we are hoping to team up with them for the Donnington Tuner event in September and run one of Race 400 cars there. Should be a fun event.
Fastest car from last year…Twin Turbo Viper! All of the tests for this event were performed on 93 octane pump gas. Luckily for us we only are competing with 4 cylinder cars this year.
Randy i to was a sceptic, until i spent alot more time Logan and his mechanic and started to realise that it is not just a turbo slapped onto a motor, there are many little details required to produce the figures it does. The car has both high and low boost modes and has lasted contrary to what you might believe.
As far as your predictions for 1/4 mile times go, please go ahead and try, at a proper drag strip with regulation timing, if you run under 11.5 seconds in your N/A car i will fly over and shake your hand I promise. Best i have seen with a N/A Honda in a motorsport elise which was well lightened was 11.7s. And on average they run 12.3 seconds. 1 second on the 1/4 mile is a country mile, it does not sound like much but in reality it is plenty.
As far as your respect levels are concerned, i think that there are other people who deserve that title quite alot more. At least Forcefed has not said that the results are in his book which will be coming out soon. He has results which speak for themselves.
Drag racing is not my cup of tea and Logan and i have no conflict helping each other out as i do track racing and he does drag racing. So helps me out with the engine side on my car and i help him out on the chassis side of his. As far as mapping a 400 HP car, i am sure M5’s get mapped all the time and they don’t need a special Dyno for that.
Forcefed send me a PM something i would like to chat to you about if you don’t mind.
