Turbos Rule

The Oily Bits S1 Specific Topics
21

I must agree with some of the readers here that the BBR guy is a ****. I received a rather rude e mail from the guy 6 months ago after a simple enquiry about prices!! Even if the engine lasts more than five minutes before blowing upthey don’t deserve any business with their attitude. I’m getting the Turbo Technics conversion for 12k. Have fun!

22

**** (Sorry, I did have to edit this post – it contained a Cert-18 swear word)[This message has been edited by Admin5 (edited 05 November 2001).]

23

[image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]

24

All I can say, is that when they first advertised their 300bph conversion, I phoned them to get some info. They were very rude. They said that lots of people were wasting their time asking about it, and said they would send me some info for 50 quid. If they don’t want people asking about their products, they shouldn’t advertise. ****s. Sorry, I had to edit my own post. ****ers. Oops, there I go again.

25

I’m new to this k series stuff, but for 10k for 220bhp seems to be the worst value ever. a vtec transplant or audi/vw 20vt would easily achieve that for just a few thousand quiddidn’t adrians elise have glacial lag anyway. CCC said it wasn’t very good to drive at all.

26

…all at the expense of weight. The very reason the K Series is so attractive to the lightweight principles of Lotus.Ianps. Blime! Did I just suggest Lotus had principles?!

27

But with an engine (the 1.8 turbo VW/Audi) that can reliably give 300lbft/250bhp, an extra 50-80kg isn’t such a big deal. What would worry me is the balance of the car being affected. I suppose if you could actually tell when driving (lets be honest, most of prolly aren’t at a level that we could!), extra weight could be added at the front to even things out. And with all that torque you’re hardly going to notice.A friend of mine is actually seriously considering doing this conversion on his Elise so we will know for sure how the handling is affected.SteveB

28

The extra weight will effect the hamdling of the car so it is best to keep it to a minimum. Also the centre of mass of the engine needs to be as low as possible. This is one area that the K is good at compared to most multivalve varible valve timed engines currently available, (most are very top heavy). Nice to see BBR doing such a good job of self promotion. For a road car supercharging is the best option as it can simply raise the existing torque curve rather than re-shaping it which means V6 performance and torque from a K series. Turbocharged vehicles always have some lag but modern control systems and turbos are very good at hiding it. Also most road cars run very low boost pressure which again helps on the lag front. Also on an Elise you need to be very careful about generating anymore heat around the rear of the car to avoid becoming a BBQ!

29

But with an engine (the 1.8 turbo VW/Audi) that can reliably give 300lbft/250bhp, an extra 50-80kg isn’t such a big deal. What would worry me is the balance of the car being affected. I suppose if you could actually tell when driving (lets be honest, most of prolly aren’t at a level that we could!), extra weight could be added at the front to even things out. And with all that torque you’re hardly going to notice.A friend of mine is actually seriously considering doing this conversion on his Elise so we will know for sure how the handling is affected.SteveB

30

The problem is that by the time you take into account the extra weight of the engine, gearbox, driveshafts, ancillaries and intercooler etc the engine will be 100+kg heavier. You will then struggle to find enough airflow around the rear of the car for the intercooler which means you will end up with less than 250bhp. It would be interesting to see a properly done conversion but there is a real chance that you could end up being disappointed by the results! Good luck

31

The gearbox/driveshafts/ancilleries are already present on the K and are unlikely to weigh any more or less than the VW/Audi parts. Not sure how much an intercooler or charge cooler will weigh but it isn’t going to be much.The conversion has already successfully been done in Germany.Even a 100kg hit is not even 20% of the weight of the car, but to gain a 250% torque increase would make it largely irrelevant as long as the weight increase is balanced.As far as the centre of gravity is concerned, the K isn’t ideally mounted in the Elise/Exige. Compromises were made such that the Rover engine and gearbox mounts could be used.The majority of the Audi engine’s extra weight is due to its block, not the variable valve gubbings - so the extra weight will perhaps help to lower the center of gravity.SteveB

32

Why VW/Audi?Why not a Volvo engine from an S40 T4? Full aluminium block and head. Manufacturer with loads of experience building turbo engines.300Nm in stock form (actually… Volvo is lying through their teeth here as nearly all T4’s reach at least 10 to 20% more) Works reliably with simple chiptuning to 260HP and can actually be pushed to 400+HP if you do replace parts with steel (eg. crankshaft, connrods, etc.).You might even be able to squeeze a 5-cylinder T5 engine from an S60/V70 in the Elise as the Volvo M56 gearbox is ridiculously small in size. Now that would be interesting. 365Nm and 250HP as standard. But it might be getting a little too heavy for comfort.Sorry… I’m a bit of a Volvo anorak [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]Bye, Arno.

33

Arno,Its just that there are loads of the VW engines in breakers yards and plenty is known about tuning them.But I’ll suggest the Volvo engine to Bernard.SteveB

34

Why don’t I see anyone talk about fitting the Rover 220 Turbo engine? I guess its a K series and shout fit straight into the slot? I also guess it will mate with the gearbox and be abbout the same weight as the original equipment + a bit for the turbo??This seems so obvious to me that I’m sure I must be missing something??? What do all you engine builders say?

35

quote:Originally posted by RoxTeddy:I guess its a K series and shout fit straight into the slot?No. AFAIK is the 220 turbo a T-series engine, not a K-series.It’s also a cast-iron block as far as I know and very heavy.Bye, Arno.

36

quote:Originally posted by SteveB:Its just that there are loads of the VW engines in breakers yards and plenty is known about tuning them.\True, but AFAIK is the VW 1.8T also a cast-iron block which is pretty heavy.Not that nice in an Elise as it would probably end up quite tail-happy.Bye, Arno.

37

quote:Originally posted by Arno Griffioen:…the 220 turbo a T-series engine…with poor reliability! �7k of work required (thankfully paid by the insurance warranty!) on my 220 Turbo Coupe engine.

38

quote:Originally posted by IDG: …with poor reliability! �7k of work required (thankfully paid by the insurance warranty!) on my 220 Turbo Coupe engine.IDGI heard they were quite unreliable but I can pick a second hand one up for about 500-600 quid and have been told that I could get 250bhp out of it with too much hassle – so… I thought mmmmm… wonder if it would go in?I don’t know what an AFAIK is but I guess it aint a K-series, although I was also told it was a direct replacement for a k-series when fitted to a rover? That was from a guy who was looking for one for his own rover [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/confused.gif[/image]If its cast iron and is pretty heavy, then thats not so good either - anyway if anyone can give me some more info that would be great.

39

As Far As I Know, the Rover KV6 engine will fit. This is also the engine used in the BTCC Rovers [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif[/image]

40

The AFAIK engine was a joint Rover/VW project, which only saw service in one or two VW cars - IIRC, it stands for Alpha Force-Assisted Injection K-series, and was based on the 1.8 K., especially designed for turbo and supercharged installations. I think it was the G60 Golf?Corrado that used them, although I stand to be corrected…