Hi,
Not quite an Exige but please bear with me.
I’m planning a kit car conversion using a Toyota 2zz engine and box (it was relatively cheap!) so hopefully the principles will be the same. I’m having to use short itb’s because of space issues rather than outright bhp reasons (though an improvement would be welcome). what does concern me is the power and torque (or lack of torque) curves!. I will be using a standalone ecu and some of the original sensors wont be required ie map sensors. Has anyone had good results with a remap on one of these engines? I know Dave Walker at Emerald is working on something but its not finished yet.
One other question, does the 2zz engined Exige use longer gearchange cables or is there a linkage involved?
Gear linkage question answered. My engine and box came from a Corolla TS, the cables and linkage go to the rear of the box ie the side where the driveshafts are. I’ve just seen a picture of a Celica box, the cables etc are on the front of the box ie opposite to mine. Hope i can change mine without stripping it! Something to bear in mind if someones planning a Toyota conversion.
If you’re going to use aftermarket EMS then have a chat with DTA. One of their recent firmware upgrades was for the 2ZZ engine flywheel pattern. I’m also trying to pull off a bulk buy.
Ring them and Speak to Alan Warburton, he should be able to tell you which dealer it was that requested that they did that particular upgrade. I do know a bloke called Simon Lake who posts on Blatchat.com (as “Lakey”) has installed a 2ZZ in a Caterham. He works for Toyota GB. I know he used a specific company for the install.
Which is plug swappable on a Celica loom but not on a Lotus (it wont drive the Exiges CAN bus controlled instruments either but fine for a kit car)
What sort of car is it going into? If its a 7 clone then you’ll need to dry sump it, Pace have a kit.
The other thing you can do is fit Piper cams. As you’re running throttle bodies you could go for the extreme stage 3 versions (throttle bodies will allow it to idle smoothly). If its a light car (sub 700kg) then torque wont be a big problem as even a small amount of torque will always be sufficient to lift the revs up quickly into the power band. If its like an exige in weight and you plan to run mainly on the road then stage 2 cams may give better driveability. You may also want some forged Mahle motorsport pistons too.
Its actually going in a GTM coupe, and yes with a bit of modifying it will fit apart from the plenium etc so its still tranverse mid engine.
Thanks for the information, very helpfull. I had an e mail from Emerald and they are currently working to make their ecu work in conjuction with the can-bus system used on the Egige.
The car should weigh in at around 700kg and i’m restricted on wheel size due to suspension etc so effectively the gearing will be shorter therefor closing the gear spacing up, all to the good.
I just feel this engine has more to offer than Toyota endowed it with.
Can-bus is not something i want to get involved in, i’m keeping electronics restricted to the engine compartment Thought it may be of interest to Egige owners though, Emerald say their latest ecu will work with all the Toyota sensors, i take it that includes the trigger pattern.
Has anyone tried changing the inlet cam to something more traditional as some people have done with the VVC? It would be interesting to hear of their experiences.
Plenty have played with the cams but the main problem for us is that we cant take advantage of the airflow gains to full effect due to the lack of access to the ECU. The Toyota VVTLi system is very good and apart from wearing out the occasional inlet cam (like my std one did) there’s little to fault it. The VVT bit optimises the timing continually so its like having a set of vernier pullies that are constantly being tweeked for best torque. The Li bit allows us to switch to insanely high lift and duration cams at higher engine speeds so we can run to full race profiles when we need to but still have an engine which starts and idles smoothly.
Piper do 3 different grinds for the 2ZZ, I’d say that unless you’re running throttle bodies go for the middle one.
Losing the VVTLi system on a 2ZZ would pretty much put you back to a 1ZZ type power level - and it would lose all the fun!
Why not use an APEXi Power FC since you are not constrained by the canbus system of the elise? Just get a normal 2zz-GE from a celica or corolla and adapt a power FC to map it. Substantial gais are at hand with just ECU tuning and new exhaust manifold, downpipe and exhaust. You can go over 200bhp easily with just that. If you want more power you can lighten up the bits a bit, port the head a bit(it is already quite good) and change cams as per other engines.
The one thing you will have to do before you track it is to baffle the sump or you will have oil starvation problems leading to destroyed oil pumps and cams. Otherwise the engine is pretty stout. The bottom end is quite sturdy.
I doubt the stock ECU will even be able to run at all with the completely new inlet system, the MAF signals will be a lot different with the port throttles, and the TPS signals will be garbage too.
The Racetech ECU isn’t much different in price to Apexi.
On the gear cable front the Exiges gearchange uses cables which run back from the gearlever and loop around behind the engine and come forwards so it sound like the Corolla mech rather than the Celica. You may be able to use an Exige gearlever too? You’d be surprised how expensive certain Lotus parts are - Exige S inlet manifold - �85, NACA ducts �2 ea…
I suggested the Power FC becuase that is what I have experience with and it works rather well. I think it is by far the most widely used ECU for the 2ZZ. There is even an auto tune software which helps set it up before finalizing on the RR. You will need the datalogit software to fully utilize the ECU if you intend to mess with it yourself.
Does the Apexi require the stock ECU to be working underneath or does it just take over. I doubt the stock ECU will be very happy with Tims inlet system changes.
it takes over. It is a fully programmable unit. It can control VVTi, lift transition, fueling etc… Only problem I see is that he will still have to make a plenum and use a maf although there is a way to use a map but it is not straight forward.
If he runs a plenum then it is not a problem since he can use the mafs. The power FC works on both TPS and mafs reading as well as a load of other things such as air temp, water temp etc… If he does his work well it will have oem drivability with loads of usable revs.
On the gearbox front i have 2 6speed units, the one that came with Corolla T-Sport engine has the linkage for the cables on the rear (exhaust manifold side) of the box, the other one (supposedly Celica) has it all on the front. Having sat on the workshop floor with the gearstick and cables (they came with the engine/box) the “Celica” setup looks to be more suited. Does anyone know the codes for these box’s or how to tell if they have an lsd?
On the cam front i was’nt sure if the VVT was for emissions and smooth idle and how it is sensed (closed loop? and closed with what, ignition timing, rpm, tp?) the Li bit isnt in doubt!!!
I downloaded some gearbox bumf from the toyota tech info website (paid �15 for the privelege of 24hours login) but I think I may have missed the detailed bit you’re after.
For the VVT control - yes its partly for emissions but its also used to optimise torque at each engine rpm. You have early inlet valve closure (IVC) at low speed to stop the charge blowing back out to the inlet manifold and as speed increases the IVC gets later as the incoming charge has more and more momentum/ram which you can use to get more power even when the piston is moving upwards on its compression stroke.
I’d be tempted to get the whole ECU and loom from DTA, they’ll make you a loom for about �300 and the ECU should already have a std config in it to suit.
On the gearbox front i have 2 6speed units, the one that came with Corolla T-Sport engine has the linkage for the cables on the rear (exhaust manifold side) of the box, the other one (supposedly Celica) has it all on the front. Having sat on the workshop floor with the gearstick and cables (they came with the engine/box) the “Celica” setup looks to be more suited. Does anyone know the codes for these box’s or how to tell if they have an lsd?
On the cam front i was’nt sure if the VVT was for emissions and smooth idle and how it is sensed (closed loop? and closed with what, ignition timing, rpm, tp?) the Li bit isnt in doubt!!!
If you intend to mount the engine in front then by al means use the celica gearbox. If at the rear use one with the linkage at the rear(exhaust manifold side). The gearbox could be either a C60 or a C64 from memory. To see if it has LSD you should look inside the diff. If you see a bar inside it means you have no LSD if you see nothing it means you have. the Celica gearbox is likey to not have an LSD and I think the same goes for the Corolla TS. To install an LSD you will have to dissamble all the gearbox since the diff is the last thing that comes out in the C60/64
The VVT bit means variable valve timing. This is like if you have adjustable cam pulley on the intake cam. the big advantage is that you can map it so that it returns the best hp for any given rev range and load. Means you can tune the engine much better.
The car is mid-engined and very small! The reason i may have to use itb’s is for space reasons, the 2zz plenium takes a lot of space up exactly where i havent any. I had envisaged using tps only although i do have a vacuum canister from a car that had itb’s and a turbo. The final set-up can be engineered befor i refit the body. I do have an old Clayton water-brake rolling road which i am currently fitting with some data logging, enough to record rpm, torque and afr,so a little experimentation should’nt be too expensive.
On the gearbox front i dont appear have an lsd in either (i take it Toyota use torque sensing diffs as opposed to plate ones). For anyone who needs to replace their gearbox at any time the selector mechanism can be removed externally and appears almost a straight swop. Some pics may be in order!