Nope, take a step back.
This whole thing started by Simon talking about how to build a reliable K and how tuners were building problems into the engine. He then mentioned how a K could easily live with 220BHP/160ft/lbs and not fail.
Simon was then challenged to build such an engine and now he’s building them.
Remember he’s not making a living out of this. I don’t know what he�s going to do with the information after he�s proved that it can be done.
I never understood why he was met with such rejection, unless it was that people were offended by some new guy pointing them which mistakes they had made.
Is it a pride thing?
Anyway, now Simon is bringing new information that uncover many details and failures DVA has had. Dave says it�s not true and that we should believe him.
Should we?
I don�t doubt that many can build powerful engines, but Simon�s point has always been of reliability. Don�t forget that.
THAT is the point.
Well, when Simon has completed as many reliable engines as Dave (and others) have done, then maybe we can believe what he says. But on the basis of just the two engines that he is prepared to talk about I am unconvinced.
Anyway, I am glad he has come to realise that you have to throw most of the engine away to get reliable power out of it.
I never understood why he was met with such rejection…
Oh I think you do really Uldis.
I love anybody with passion and I agree Simon has raised and contributed to some very interesting debates; it’s important to have differing and challenging views, they can be the seeds of innovation. However, when any post gets personal and confrontational the benefits for everybody just get lost.
Remember the first posts, he wasn’t rude at all, he was very polite.
Also very new to postings and the internet (and actually his typing was very poor).
But this lasted little as he had to go into defensive mode from beng attacked as much (especially at Seloc) and now had come back with a much hardened attitude, to the point that I think it’s slightly too aggressive (although only with those who attacked him in the past).
I guess it’s part of his net development, he is still to go through a more “balanced” phase, but to each his own.
Obvioulsy he has a quarrell with Dave, and there’s nothing we can do about it. If what he says is true, he needs to say it, and if it’s not, Dave needs to clarify.
since a lot of it reflects on my business I have to respond, if you look at some of the posting times you will see where the time comes from.
Personally I would prefer a quieter life just responding to questions > > )
Dave
perversley tho’ some of the really interesting stuff would never had seen the light of day - can’t imagine how else the discussions about Pistal Pistons or some of the stuff about valve sizes or exacting measurment of ovality etc etc would have been available someone like me to read ? You know about this stuff so it might seem obvious… I’m not having a go and i’m really saddened by the way some discussions have went… but its been enlightening and there has been some excellent engineering debate and stuff come out that wouldn’t have if it was a simple question of the type you probably got fed up answering?.
I never understood why he was met with such rejection…
Oh I think you do really Uldis.
I love anybody with passion and I agree Simon has raised and contributed to some very interesting debates; it’s important to have differing and challenging views, they can be the seeds of innovation. However, when any post gets personal and confrontational the benefits for everybody just get lost.
Ian
well… IDG… not how I saw it unfold…
It did laterly develop a few times into something difficult to digest, but as Uldis says, I also couldn’t understand the initial rejection, derision and scorn directed at Simon… mainly it seemed to be coming from people who had an axe to grind or who felt their experience gave them some authority over Simon’s opinions and lack of direct experience… that it was nothing new… that it had all been done before… yada yada… fact is… unless youwere part of a very very small and select group, you wouldn’t have known the stuff in the King K atricle - it might seem like common sense - but for most of us it was only common sense after you read it and more importantly, it gave me real and genuine belief that it was possible to build a mega bhp/litre K-series… with Reliability
Anyway, not having a go at anyone but I am pretty much on Simon’s side for the most part in terms of what he has really been trying to do - just a shame his personality type caused him to rise to bait in a personal way… but everyone must admit that there have been a few pack-attack’s on him … we all wonder why ? … its also obvious that he has an undying passion for the Rover K design… putting EVERYTHING else aside, no-one can be less than impressed and inspired by that
You seem to have missed the whole point. Simon > talks > about doing big power K series engines and Dave actually does them.
Bernard
Well said, Bernard
I think Erland is successful in attracting attention and support by giving people a “false hope”, especially those who were fed up with a blown highly tuned K, and wanting a new solution.
It’s human nature to accept statements they want to hear, and dislike those statements they don’t want to hear.
He cleverly mixes the true facts (to get your trust) with false claims that don�t materialize, and information that have been proven wrong by Dave and Bernard before. It�s always easy to bluff, but not so easy to produce solid results.
Those who bothered to trace through the history of his posts (and not get sick of his name calling) will get a clear picture. Unfortuantely, people’s memories fade over time, and the false hope keeps coming back.
Says the guy that went through the trouble of buying pistons and damaging them to have his money back with the whole purpose of getting attention…
Besides, you could have seen my reply to Bernard, THAT was not the original point. It was about reliability. Other people started challenging him to build high powered examples.
Look at it this way: those who have engines by him are very happy. Those who don’t, slag him.
I agree Simons attitude on here sucks. I have only been around the Exige ‘K’ series scene for about 18 months, so I don’t know or really care what happened before that. I have told Simon the same on several occasions.
However, we are not all stupid day dreamers that are grasping onto some line that an unknokwn guy is spouting like some kind of TV avangalist.
Knowing Simon in person, having spent the time to get to know him and understand what he is trying to do, I holeheartedly support him.
This does not mean that I don’t respect Dave Andrews, I have only ever spoken to Dave once for about 5 minutes, so I don’t know him at all. This fact is one of the big factors why I try not to jump in to these debates on Simons side. I don’t want to alienate Dave against me and I certainly do not want to come accross as one of Simons sheep. I aint nobodys sheep (is that a line from a film?? lol)
Other people started challenging him to build high powered examples.
I don’t think that is entirely true Uldis. When Simon first came on here nearly 2 years ago now he was claiming that high BHP engines already existed
“As a point of interest, I have built four engines for friends all of which have been properly toleranced and totally faultless over 18 months minimum on the track ,running as much as 227 bhp”
et al.
All we wanted to know was who was running them and where were the power graphs to substantiate the claims. That’s what kicked off the slanging match.
Anyway, we’ve all been through this before, I don’t propose to go on about it.
Do you really think I would waste some 120gbp on shipping both ways, and held back my engine rebuild for 4-6 weeks, just to slag him and get attention?
Why would I damage the pistons myself, when I was in a hurry to carry out the rebuild? Think about it. Have you actually seen those pistons? If not, I suggest you don’t jump into conclusions. Those were clearly used and damaged before shipping out to me, as shown in the pics I posted before, with damage distributed randomly over the leading edges that cannot be done during shipping, especially when there’s like 10 folds of bubble wrap protection. I admitted I made a stupid mistake to source std factory parts from him, thinking I would save a few quid. I’ve learnt a lesson to only source parts from reputable suppliers.
I respect your initial decision and bravery to ask SE to build you an engine when he first appeared here, but you kept repeating the wrong point. I suggest you do a search yourself on his first posts (if he hasn’t deleted them yet).
I am aware that he mentioned some over 200 BHP engines, and the owners never posted to confirm.
I can understand some people will never post on the net, after all, you can live easily without any net contact, so never thought twice about it.
But some people (that actually post) would never understand this of course.
So, I believe yes that there are some engines of his with more power than mine out there.
And if not, all the same, he did a good job on mine.
Remember, he’s (or was) not an engine builder.
But like you say, let’s not argue about this, only time will tell.
I sincerely hope that progress continues to be made with developing the k - in particular in terms of reliability. It does offer a lot in terms of engine weight, but has been vulnerable to failure for a myriad of reasons. Several developers / builders / drivers have chosen to move on to other powerplants - BernardS and ever Scuffers. I am not yet convinced that the K still has a role to play and the best might results may still be to come - SteveB’s engine is making more power than ever before.
SimonE has made the K his passion for his own reasons. DaveA has done masses of work too. Surely in all of this there must be some common ground? Bernard certainly extented and olive branch the other day. I realise that SimonE reacts fairly vehemently to various situations and that lots of angry words have been said. As Sean said, the comments you read on both side are at odds with the Simon Erland I have met and had several hours of conversation with. He has been really helpful with advice and overall understanding of my particular setup. He has never tried to sell me anything. This has been very much in the same spirit as the advice I have had from DVA in the past - helpful, friendly and informative. I owe a huge amount of my understanding and enjoyment of the car and of motorsport to these forums and to many of you.
I really want to continue to learn more about the car, the engines, the setup and I really hope everyone involved thinks for a while of what these forums are about and the common interest we share. Your ideas cannot really be as far apart as they seem. We all know what was said / promised etc etc. Is there any way that this will be put into the past, hands shaken, apologies made and everyone agree to differ where relevant and without animosity? Is it ever too late for that?
The irony is, that despite the seeming “camps of opinion” on the forums, every meet / trackday I attend seems to be a friendly bunch of blokes with a common interest all getting along. No animosity I have seen. Maybe I am in cuckooland here, but I have lived my own life with the idea that life is too short to have enemies and that it takes a lot more energy to be angry than to be happy.
I hope that when SimonE makes his perfect engine (and many people will be really surprised at the huge amount of work he has done on every component) that he is so passionate about, that folks would be happy for him, happy to have more options and not quite so eager to see him fail - In the same way that I was chuffed to hear about Steves engine or some of DVA’s recent developments.
Perhaps I’m being naive but I’d like to think that nobody is really thinking that. They just want the proof, and frustratingly for Simon first he has to build one good engine (well he’s over that hurdle), then a few (at which point the industry will say he’s doing well but perhaps is just lucky), and finally when there’s lots of engines built by him or with his method people are going to say “you know what, he was right”. And we’ll know when that happens as he’ll be copied.
They’re also going to enquire about costs, because value is almost always in the equation.
So, am I wrong, is there anybody out there who actually wants him to fail?
So, am I wrong, is there anybody out there who actually wants him to fail?
Of course nobody wants him to fail. For the sake of the many K owners out there I want him to succeed. But I will take a bit of convincing that he has.
I am sorry if anyone felt that my remark about failure was aimed at anyone in particular - it wasn’t and with the tone of the last few posts, there clearly is still some goodwill around.Anyway, sorry if I offended there.
Without wanting to speak out of turn, I was also wondering what was taking Simon so long with producing engines. After actually seeing how many key engine components he has been reengineering, I can see why the process has been slow. I also gained a really healthy respect for the work that you technically minded folks do if putting together engines. Huge respect!
I hope Simon also returns with a calmer online approach (No offence meant by that Simon) and lets his forthcoming work do the talking - which it seems is what everyone wants.
Those of us that are actually waiting for Simons engines (and I have spoke to all of the 2.0 litre people via telephone or e-mail), don’t have a problem with the wait as Simon has kept us all informed as to the current status.
I agree I am chomping at the bit and my new engine can’t come soon enough. At Snetterton I was the only car on the grid that wasn’t either super charged or turbo charged, let alone only having a rattly old standard vhpd in the back and it was really annoying having everyone just blast away from me down the straights.
I HATE STRAIGHTS!!!
I think the rest of the races this year should be at Brands, at least there I could have a go at the 450BHP Nobles. Now if only I coiuld get them to put another chicane on the main straight!!!
I would recommend anyone with an interest in K engines,or engines in general to see first hand the work Simon is doing.I have been to see work in progress,and to dicuss various options for my engine many times.Every time I have been totally impressed with what I have seen.
Simon has a passion for these engines and fanatical attention to detail.But most of all he cares,and after dealings with other builders who didn`t give a fcuk after they got paid I have a refreshed belief in the K engine.
p.s. nobody on here has build any previous engine for me
if Simon’s credibility is going to rest on him getting a large number of engines out there, then this will never happen. remember, that his initial objective was to share his opinions and knowldge of the K to demonstrate that it COULD be made pwerful and reliable. this has never been a commercial interest for him, but more a labour of love (or obsession), so he weill never get the numbers out there that other engine builders have. from my understanding of all this and from discussions with him, I bet he wishes someone else, ANYONE else would take the mantle from there and produce these engines following his “recipe”.I don’t think his issue has ever been that he’s the only one who can build a good engine, only that it hasn’t been done to the exacting standards that he feels are required. As no-one has shown an interest, he seems to have been left to prove his point on his own…Am I the only one who sees it this way???
furthermore, the whole point about the K being made powerful and reliable has already been proven with the EDL Judd K2000…isn’t that proof enough for the non-believers? All this talk about impossible piston speeds etc etc has already been disproven by the mere existence, let alone the success of this engine, hasn’t it???
again, maybe i should echo the remarks of others: since none of us that have commissioned Simon to produce these 2.0L engines has an issue with the time, maybe we should all just wait and see.
> )