S1 vs S2 vs 111R...

I’m plotting to buy a Lotus as a 2nd car, mainly for trackdays. I wonder if anyone can offer objective advice about the three options listed? (I know that this is a mahooosive can of worms, having done a few searches , but I’m not stirring - honest!) I know a fair bit about the physical differences - it’s the differences in ownership, such as the character of the K vs the Toyota, costs, and reliability, that I don’t know so much about.

I’d also like to use this 2nd car for occasional driving jaunts (Le Mans, Italian Alps, etc), for which the Elise might be better. Dynamically, does the 111R fall significantly below the Exige?

Thanks all

Can’t comment on the 1st part of your question, but having done a European tour in an Elise and several in the Exige, I would say that the Exige is by far the better car.

Also dynamically, I much prefer the Exige which feels so much more planted.

The Elise is a good car but lacks the sense of occasion you will get in an Exige.

I have an S1 Exige and an 111R, both with 4000 miles on the clock, so am probably in a decent position to give a personal perspective on these two. I have also driven a couple of S2 Exiges and appreciate that they are great cars but from a purely personal point of view, probably to do with looking too much like the elise, they didnt really ‘do it’ for me.

The 111R is a real split personality car. My g/f can drive it around town, pottering about at low revs with the roof off, pretty much in the same manner as she drives the MINI and it is fine, good fun, looks cool, sounds cool, turns heads and all that stuff. It is pretty easy to get comfortable and generally pretty easy to live with (for a 2 seater convertable sports car).On the other hand, if driven with a bit of gusto and using the full rev range, the twin cam engine sounds great with the Stage 2 exhaust and induction kit and the performance is pretty addictive. Being able to get the roof off was a big MUST for me.

The S1 Exige is a fair bit different and is definately more of an ‘occasion’ to drive. Where as the 111R feels like a great sports car, the exige feels like a great race car. It doesnt really like ‘pottering’, it almost makes the elise seem ‘practical’, can get a bit hot n stuffy inside and driving around in town, can almost be wareing No doubt there are lots of folk more qualified to talk about the technical stuff but from a general driving point of view, the S1 exige feels much more ‘raw’ and ‘hard core’ than the 111R.

Personally, on the road, I find it easier to drive the elise faster than the exige but I think that is just because it doesnt feel like you are thrashing the nuts off the engine in the 111R as much as it does in the S1 exige. As for looks… I think the 111R looks fantastic. I think the S1 exige looks awesome.

If one had to go I guess it would be… a tough decision!

Jim

Hi,

Having both a Elise Mk1 and an Exige Mk1 sitting side by side in the garage, and having frequently driven the 111R and Mk2 Exige (cup and bemani compressor) I believe your decission can only be made if you know exactly what you want.

I agree that the 111R has a split personality, but it can be fun to drive on the track on country lanes motorway and around town. The Exige Mk2 is perhaps slightly more practical and equipped with either Bemani or Lotus Compressor becomes a nice track tool but retaines its graces as a daily driver.
The Mk1 ELise is less practical that the 111R, either to upgrade engine wise the weight difference compensates for less power is the original and hass no frills and I wouldn’t change ist for anything but
the Exige Mk1 which has even less frills and with a well tuned VHPD and a well setup suspension can take all but the BEmani Compressor cars for a ride on the track. THe downside is zero practicality but who cares.

fortunately I only have to chose which one to drive to the office.

Tom

…mainly for trackdays…

S1 Exige

Throw in a Honda engine to make it even better and a more reliable tourer.

Ian

If I can add my 2p, I agree with all Jim Renmure says…I too have first hand experience (ownership) of a Modded S1 Elise, S1 Exige 190 & 111R.

If you want the best of everything, get a 111R, Ohlins & A048’s…unless you can stretch to a s/c 240. Especially with your touring aspirations. If the car was for 95% track use, get an S1 Exige.

Tim.

Thanks for the replies

How correct are these assumptions?

  1. Given the identical powerplant, drivetrain, & chassis of the Exige s2 and the 111R, they should be capable of very similar lap times, given identical tyres.

  2. The s1 Exige is lighter and slightly torquier, so should be a tad faster around a track than the s2, again given identical tyres, etc.

The other thing that interests me is the need to upgrade the Exige (or not). I got fed up uprating almost everything on my last road/track car (coilovers, brakes, power, cooling, wheels, etc) and one reason I’m attracted to the Exige is its out-of-the-box reputation. But then I research it on this site, and people are still upgrading everything! Suspension, brakes, LSD… should I really be looking at an R300 for track?

one reason I’m attracted to the Exige is its out-of-the-box reputation. But then I research it on this site, and people are still upgrading everything! Suspension, brakes, LSD… should I really be looking at an R300 for track?

Other than the brakes on the heavier/more powerful S2 variants, I would say that the out of the box performance is really good. People being people there will always be the modders who want to change something either for the results they hope to get or for the challenge or just doing it…I’m not sure R300 owners are that different!

I think I would stick to the lotus. Another toy in my garage is a Westfield MegaBlade. Similar performance to an R300 but a bit more frenetic with the Honda bike engine. I recon a lotus 7 type kit car is definately one for the guy who is as happy to tinker, fix and upgrade as he is to drive it. Probably safest to trailer one to the track and, whilst some folk definately do go touring in their 7s, I think it is fair to describe them as ‘committed’.

Decisions decisons

  1. Given the identical powerplant, drivetrain, & chassis of the Exige s2 and the 111R, they should be capable of very similar lap times, given identical tyres.

  2. The s1 Exige is lighter and slightly torquier, so should be a tad faster around a track than the s2, again given identical tyres, etc.

The other thing that interests me is the need to upgrade the Exige (or not). I got fed up uprating almost everything on my last road/track car (coilovers, brakes, power, cooling, wheels, etc) and one reason I’m attracted to the Exige is its out-of-the-box reputation. But then I research it on this site, and people are still upgrading everything! Suspension, brakes, LSD… should I really be looking at an R300 for track?

  1. Close, Exige has stiffer springs and a bit of downforce. There’s probably lift at high speeds in the 111R.

  2. An S1 is quite surprisingly faster (given similar medium-level driver skill). 200kgs is quite a lot for the S2 to to give away to the S1, as is the added downforce. An S2 needs some long straights to make any benefit of the high top speed.

There’s a few things you’ll want to upgrade (eg. pads, perhaps brake fluid) but nothing you really need to.

Ian

Thanks for the replies

How correct are these assumptions?

  1. Given the identical powerplant, drivetrain, & chassis of the Exige s2 and the 111R, they should be capable of very similar lap times, given identical tyres.

No, not really. well yes similar. But not quite the same. depends on the driver too. to be identical on all but tracks with high speed corners where down force (& balls) make a difference, you’ll need LSS. Better yet with ohlins. On the road its very similar, without changes.

  1. The s1 Exige is lighter and slightly torquier, so should be a tad faster around a track than the s2, again given identical tyres, etc.

If the track is tight & twisty yes. Long & fast straights with 120+ capability no. again it will depend more on driver skill though. Both great cars though

The other thing that interests me is the need to upgrade the Exige (or not). I got fed up uprating almost everything on my last road/track car (coilovers, brakes, power, cooling, wheels, etc) and one reason I’m attracted to the Exige is its out-of-the-box reputation. But then I research it on this site, and people are still upgrading everything! Suspension, brakes, LSD… should I really be looking at an R300 for track?

For most, straight out of the box is fab. Those who can out drive the car, maybe a upgrade or two is needed. But for most, standard is pretty much fine.

Tim.

Exige S2 is best.

Anyone that disagrees is an old codger.

Yes

Besides, I know an old codger or to that might not quite agree with you.

Ian

If the track is tight & twisty yes. Long & fast straights with 120+ capability no. again it will depend more on driver skill though. Both great cars though

Different gearing, or simply a function of the Toyota’s powerband sitting higher up?

Anyone know this car? Used cars for sale - PistonHeads UK
Is a rebuild at 23k not a little early?

If the track is tight & twisty yes. Long & fast straights with 120+ capability no. again it will depend more on driver skill though. Both great cars though

Different gearing, or simply a function of the Toyota’s powerband sitting higher up?

Anyone know this car? > Used cars for sale - PistonHeads UK
Is a rebuild at 23k not a little early?

Not grearing or BHP, the S1 hits an aerodynamic brick wall around 120mph (190 K-series), the S2 is more slippy & has less downforce/drag, so a higher top speed. Mechanical grip is similar, but the S1 is lighter & wins on the same tyres/abilities.

Don’t know the Orange car. 23K re-build not out of the ordinary though, especially if it’s seen alot of track use*.

I’m assuming it has…the owner describes seats/harnesses as ‘like the 340R’ when in fact they could all be specc’d on the S1 when new. Perhaps his are aftermarket fittings (can’t see the Exige logo) after trying on track without

Tim.

Anyone know this car? > Used cars for sale - PistonHeads UK
Is a rebuild at 23k not a little early?

I’d ask why the rebuild, it may have only been a preventative maintenance item. I’d also ask who did the work and what they actually did. Depending on spec and who did it, it could actually be a really positive selling point.

From the pictures the front looks quite good - no evidence of stonechipping.

Also notice that it has the plumbing for ac but no mention of it; and magnecor HT leads.

I got caught out on the seat thing on an earlier car, I think it may be a genuine one - the Exige logo sits very high on the headrest.

The orange exige in the advert was previously owned by koopa (username on here) if you have a look back through his posts you will get the history. Nice car, having followed it over Loch Lomond in my s1…

Thats my old car! I bought it from a guy who was a regular on here called John Cunningham and I used for twelve months or so without any trouble - several track days and about 5k miles. Great car, totally reliable and v. quick.

I sold it to the bloke from Glasgow who then had the rebuild done - uneccessarily in my opinion but can’t do any harm I suppose! Can’t vouch for it since I sold it obviously but up to that point it was spot on.