Does the Exige have an uprated rear toe link (above Elise)fitted as standard? - at Elvington at w.e. a Honda engined Elise had a std rear toe link go - v. v. hairy - if had been on a track, with less run off, would have been ‘interesting’
I’d have to ask Engineering but I don’t think so. The part numbers are different but the hub itself look pretty much the same. I did get the “upgraded” rear hubs with my Motorsport Brake kit but it looks identical to the stock stuff except the brake mounting point.
It looks to me like the additional “stregth” is the brace that mounts between the lower A-Arm and the Toe Link Assembly. I’ve got photos if you want to see what they look like…
Do you know where on the hub his failed?
I also have a spare set of rear hubs if your buddy needs a set.
Roy
Unless you buy the motorsport toe-link kit you have exactly the same as a standard Elise.
The other option is to buy the kit made by Eliseparts. I’ve just recently fitted the Eliseparts kit as the Exige I bought recently had done 30k road miles and quite a few suspension bits were rusty so didn’t want to risk it as I do a LOT of trackdays.
The kit from Elise-parts is good but I wasn’t very happy that when spending about �400 for the kit delivered, you don’t get any instructions, and I had to take a file to a few of the spacers to make sure they fitted properly.
The big difference between the early and later Elises (Exiges are the same as the later Elise) is the introduction of Steel rear uprights instead of the Aluminium ones.
Does anyone know how much it would cost to have a rear toe link kit fitted by a specialist?(i.e. not a main dealer).Thanks…
Roy, will try to find out where failure was and will post - thanks for your comment
Mark - whats the diff with Eliseparts kit compared to std?
Simon
The standard toe links are made up of two joints (one each end) that are just like track rod ends. These have a limited life in the environment they work in ( heat drys up the lubrication and they have quite some work to do on track).
The uprated toe links from Lotus consist of new spherical (rose joint or rod ends) joints a new bar and brackets for the subrame to hold the joint on in both sides. ( the kit is shown in the motorsport section of the parts cd )
Anyhow, the elise parts kit is similar to the MS one in that in it uses rod ends but a solid stst bar rather than the MS hollow one.
There is much discussion over this, whether you want the bar to break or the subframe to get damaged “when” you smash your rear end in a wall …
The only flaw in this whole thing, well a few really:
- The pressure is still put on the M10 bolts that hold the rod ends, the one on the hub is critical as you have to use washers to get the right bump steer - then you may find the bolt thread starts at the exact point the arm starts and thats where the load is - difficult to explain - but anyway you want the thread to start just a couple of mm max below the face where the nut goes thus having plenty of shank in the arm - also use a “k” nut on the bolt.
- Using solid stst the bar is quite heavy, the temptation is to make the bar thinnner but then there is not so much strength IMHO - alternative maybe a Ti bar
- The whole kit uses M10 bolts and 1/2 inch joints - small spacers are needed - it may have been better to use a 1/2 inch bolt rather than an M10 at the hub …
- Rod ends can be bought for 15 quid or 60 quid - I would spend at least 20-30 minimum you need teflon lined Am/Ab 8 from Aurora
- There load is still put down to the bolt at the other end that holds the wishbone on, there is a modification that moves that pick up to the wishbone itself ( pilbeam / Kelvedon ) fo possible ultimate strength.
All IMHO I’m sure others will have other ideas and comments
We’ll hopefully hear from SimonE how this failed but my guess is that it would have been the bolt which sheared as IMHO this iss the weak-point if you look at the direction of stresses normally applied to the toe-link it’s unlikely the bar would break or buckle ?
I agree everything AndyD says above… in fact i learned rather a lot there… and think there is a balance to be struck between strengthening this area up and over stregthening it so that its the chassis which gets damaged instead of the toe-link which breaks (implicit in this, of course is that you don’t want either and you certainly dont want it to let go when you are giving it pelters on a track day or whatever !! )… I know where there is an exige at the mo’ awaiting a new chassis exactly because the rear toe-link ripped a hole in it
Oh yes and:
- Alwyas always use 12.9 rated M10 cap screws … anything else WILL break I’m sure - I saw an M10 bolt break at the Hub end and it was only a lower quality bolt and the thread was all the way through taking the full load - the thread is not designed for that … So dont be tempted by shiny nickel plated crap either
And another thing - the standard bar is too short IMHO - that leaves a lot of thread exposed on teh rose joint - so not a lot in the bar … longer bars help - about 300mm from memory is about right.
my guess is that it would have been the bolt which sheared
Correct - I was there when the offending part was removed and the bolt had sheared fairly square…although not quite sure whether it was on the shank or the thread
Might be stating the obvious, but if the weak link is the retaining bolt and i would imagine that failures are more related to stretching and then snapping over a period of time rather than catastrophic instant failures (other than when hitting a solid object - and the few I have heard about are just the “it just let go variety”) then the low cost option is just to replace the bolt every 12 months?
It’s a real eye opener some of the things that come to light on this webpage.I’m sure there are many Exige owners out there (such as me!)who are mechanically pretty hopeless,but enjoy the driving side of things very much.We want the best upgrades for our cars,but it seems almost impossible to get the kind of expertise/knowledge from dealers that is often available on here.I was pretty convinced that I ‘needed’ the toe link kit until I read the very informative post from AndyD.It seems that the potentially vital part that needs upgrading hasn’t been.Another member has suggested that unless you are constantly riding kerbs on track days,it is not really a ‘must have’ upgrade.
Might be stating the obvious, but if the weak link is the retaining bolt and i would imagine that failures are more related to stretching and then snapping over a period of time rather than catastrophic instant failures (other than when hitting a solid object - and the few I have heard about are just the “it just let go variety”) then the low cost option is just to replace the bolt every 12 months?
Steve
I pretty well agree with this but if the bolt gets past its elastic limit it will shear ‘catastrophically’ there won’t be any warning. So I agree that it would be a good idea to replace the bolt from time to time with bolts (12.9 cap screws or better) made for the job. I’m not so convinced that the bar needs to be ‘heavier’
Although its also got to be useful hving rose-joints… ?
Rox reckon Steve has saved me further investigation on this matter. Andy big thanx for your post - am much wiser on this subject now…
Rox
100% agree - the bar does not need to be stupid strong - just strong enough not to bend and as far as I know the MS bar breaks where the thread is welded to the tube - so in theory a solid bar with integral thread should be way strong and on the flip side potentialy damage your subframe if you hit anything as its less likely to bend …
Simon - agree its good plan to change the bolts every now and then - I have checked mine and found them coming loose - I guess thats becuase the bolts had stretched a bit.
Rox,
Just want to check something with you, as the toe-link is bolted to the rear subframe, how come the Exige needs a new chassis?
if you look at the direction of stresses normally applied to the toe-link it’s unlikely the bar would break or buckle ?
Not sure if it helps but I once hit a kerb sideways in my Elise (In the wet at about 25mph) which had covered about 25k and it had the standard rear toe-link / bars and it was the the bar that buckled and everything else stayed in place quite nicely
In fact the ‘specialist’ that re-set up the suspension afterwards - no names mentioned checked it over and suggested to leave the buckled bar on and just re-set the track!
Agree with the above. These are wear parts so keep an eye on they do wear and need attentiokn. I upgraded mine in order to run on slicks.
I certainly wouldn’t leave any part on the car that is bent. If it has moved already and forces going through the part are now affecting it in a different way, therefore it will bend a lot easier under a LOT less load.
I’d also be cautious of using 12.9 grade bolts as for this type of application the bolt could be a bit too brittle, 10.9 should be enough.
Rox,
Just want to check something with you, as the toe-link is bolted to the rear subframe, how come the Exige needs a new chassis?
Phil
ahemm… emm… well… i s’pose… you are of course dead right.
There is an exige awaiting repairs in a bodyshop up here and I asked what was wrong with it, cause it has been waiting for a long time now !! the chappie I was speaking to said, among other things, it had a damaged chassis due to the toe-link getting smacked in an accident - I just accepted it at the time, then this discussion came up… and it served to make a point that the toe-link could be made to be too strong (and i guess there are circumstances where we would prefer the toe-link to break rather than the chassis - or sub-frame for that matter - if you had to make a choice ?
However, maybe he meant the sub-frame? I’ll ask him more to try and clarify.