seriously Pesky what I am interested is the fall off in power over 30,000 miles
I appreciate that, but I won’t be able to help, sorry. I don’t know what it produced when it was initially installed in my car (engine had only 700 miles on it). It may have been more, or less than Honda’s quoted figure for the UK Civic TypeR, as the manifold is a cut up original Honda jobbie, but has a decent (BMC) air filter. When it goes on the rollers it will be Jackson supercharged, & have a different manifold.
Oh c’mon - there are dozens & dozens of reliable, high powered Honda engines (commercial & individual conversions) in existence, whose precise cost is available for all to see, & whose dyno plots are widely available. They have been proven in road, track & race conditions over thousands of miles. As for the “super” K engines - we’re still waiting - 4 years down the line. Please produce something, prove the figures & the reliability, quote a fixed price, & finally, stop slagging everyone else off. You may then be taken seriously by those who want to listen. I’m not interested in who started slagging who off in the first place, we are now where we are - your (& your engine’s) destiny firmly lies in your own hands - please don’t waste this last opportunity (as far as I am concerned) to earn some respect.
Pesky figures and graphs are not going to prove anything on this forum - too deep are the vested interests.
Simon, I’m presuming you left out a comma after “Pesky” in the above, otherwise it gives a different meaning!
However, I think you are more incorrect, than correct in your statement, if you see what I mean. Many peeps on this (& other forums) are very interested in dyno plots, & I genuinely believe that they should serve you well - forget absolutes, what is wanted is verifiable data about your engines be they your “best”, “least best” or “average” spec. (& the cost of course!). You may then find that your engines are chosen to replace whatever is presently sitting in some engine bays of both leisure, & race* cars.
There has now been so much water under the bridge, that “the proof of the pudding” really “will be in the eating”. Sean’s car will not achieve that on its own, I’m afraid, & one way or another, you’ll have to get more of your engines installed in Elises/Exiges.
As you know, I personally have never doubted that you know how to build a stonking K engine, & I know from close quarters that Sean’s does go very well. I would indeed be very pleased to drive one of your’s - & also see at first hand, some of your fabulous sculpture.
Now there’s a man with his priorities right!
Yes but - I’ve handed over half a house 3 times so far - I wasn’t very good at maths at school so I can’t work out how I’ve still got a house. Beats me.
And if I didn’t hand over half a house 3 times - what kind of a car and plane would I have now?
I wouldn’t say my way is the right way - but it’s suited me.
Why make one woman miserable when you can make lots miserable
Have you taken it back to rollers recently to see your power compared to when new
I would be very very very interested in that experimenti didnt have a RR session when mines was done, but Mark A managed 222bhp on his car. Mines, with a copy of Mark A’s map (after 30,000 miles) did 223bhp at emerald, so it looks like they hold up well to the miles.
On the same rollers Neil?
Thing is I have never rollered a honda at 30,000 mile gap, but I do have 3 honda engines here, all with serious carbon intrusion beyond the top ring, engines running fine - apparently - I bought them as runners - bores look ok, but measure them and they are knackered, which is why there is all this blowby, and carbon penetration.
On this basis the best of the engine is shot at 30,000 miles, and none of the 3 engines I have have ever seen a track remember.
Yep. on the same emeralds rollers. Like i say, not a strict before and after, but my car after 30,000 miles was the same as marks when new.
Get the Quaife close-ratio box which uses standard 1st+2nd with closer 3rd,4th and 5th.The ratios are perfectly matched to the K-torque curve and makes a 6-speed box a waste of money.
Get the Quaife close-ratio box which uses standard 1st+2nd with closer 3rd,4th and 5th.The ratios are perfectly matched to the K-torque curve and makes a 6-speed box a waste of money.
As the kingK curves are mythical any ratio matching is going to be a moot point.
Copied from Seloc in blue;
[color:“blue”]Properly built 1.8k, better than 250bhp, weighing less than 80kg, last 3x longer than a honda will cost about 6k plus exhaust and ecu. Rebuild - to as new, will cost 1k odd [/color]
Chuck in gearbox/mapping/labour to remove & install, & do your own sums to compare with a proven Honda conversion.
Yep - looks a lot dearer than a honda option, especially as the honda option seems a wee bit cheaper the further north you go.
Also 3x longer than a honda? As the honda will do 100k+ then this means he is claiming 300,000 miles from the beastie.
Also headline figures are fine (even though they are unproven and not backup by any evidence) but where are the plots? At the very least you need them to run the cascade curves to see how hamstrung the expensive kingk option is with the manky old PG gearbox and ratios.
Well it’s interesting, at first we were told a k could never be reliable above 200bhpthen we were told it was difficult to get better than 220bhp out of a k at all
then we were told a honda would last longer
and now we are told that the one remaining justification for a honda is that it is cheaper
and 6k plus vs 10k for the conversionand 1k for a rebuild opposed to 1 1/2 - 2k for a sub 5000klick honda
huummmm not sure I believe that one either??
So the honda is cheaper. So after four years all we have is still no engines but an admisssion its not even going to be cheap anymore to go KingK.
The honda does last longer - and the power remains high even after lots of hard miles. The pubic proof to date is the honda engine lasts better. Thats proof from hundreds of installs, let alone the OEM installs.
Your conversion is not 6k as i needs a gearbox sorting for a start as well as a new ECU - which one and how much does it cost? Does the cost inclue a free copy of the book?
So is �1k for a rebuild or a refresh?
Are you seriously saying I can kil one of your engines good and proper (through no fault of the build or design - as you know there are many ways to kill an engine) and the rebuild (head, pistons, crank etc etc) is �1k?
Well I really don’t get how you can say a really nice K at 5/6k is more expensive than a honda conversion at 10k+???
And of course a completely blown engine cannot be replaced for 1k, but then the purpose of building them right is to build them so they don’t break. And while there have been niggling issues with coatings, clutches, and getting people to understand how to treat an engine in the very first 10-15 mins of running, once running and mapped I have never had an engine break - so far - and expect that to remain the case provided people look after them.
Your engine is not 6k though is it as you require a different ECU and a decent gear box and its different enough to require some hours of install and lots of mapping. Oh and a manifold and back box.
Niggling issues with coatings - so that much is true then
The point about the blown engine is a valid one - a stock honda is cheap as chips and with the best will in the world engines do let go, often for reasons external to, but fatal for, the engine. Fuel pumps fail, injectors block, oil filters choke, plumbing fails - the list is all too familiar to the users of any engine.
On a K series with just about everything swapped that means a heartbreaking bill, on a honda or audi thats a bill orders of magnitude lower as you admit.
Its interesting tp see you are already starting to blame your customers for any failures, no wonder SeanB gave up on the 2lt.
I have had a season of that with Sean, but it hasn’t blown his engine.
Is he looking forward to using his mythical 2.0lt then?
I notice you have now run away from the cost issue then?
I notice you have now run away from the cost issue then?
Not at all
A properly built K is much ceaper than a k20 conversion, and cheaper to maintain, as well as being A LOT more engine
So as we have a price for the engine of 6k.
To establish if its cheaper than a honda (let alone the eye watering cost of replacement when it lets go or if the coatings screw up) you need to actaully be honest about the real cost.
So
how much for the ECU?
how much for the exhuast system
how much for the gearbox (or show us a curve so we can see if the standard box and raios will cope and be effective)
how much to install etc etc
if you are really not running away from the cost issue you will answer the question.