Post deleted by Admin5


The only problem I have with you and your views on the K is that you don’t back up your statements with examples of the performance data for the engine that people can verify.

Not sure where you get the idea that I was responsible for soldering the liners together. I must admit I considered the idea for a few minutes and then dismissed it as unworkable.

So that’s the challenge is it ? Re-read an article ?

I thought I was going to get a drive in the 400 BHP turbo car, or run my Audi up against a 280 BHP K.

I must say I am very disappointed.

For those that don’t have access to the Racecar engineering article the last sentance says.

“To be honest, I think the engine has received bad press because people are doing a bad job on it and building in the problems”

Fair comment. Maybe Stan Hall would like to post up a power curve for the engine and tell us what fuel it runs on ? It doesn’t smell like regular unleaded to me.


" and the engine for similar money to yours this time , with steel liners , rods , crank, MS3 head, etc etc etc"

A cost breakdown would be great. Say I rolled in with a 120hp K in the back of an Elise… what would be the cost of getting to that spec?

I mean it genuinely as a friend of mine has to stick with a K in his Caterham for his sprint regs.



Then add in your labour cost. And if doing it commercially add in your profit margin…

The Honda is a conversion not just an engine swap. New gearbox, driveshafts, mounts, ECU, electrics, manifold + cat, profit for the dealer, profit for Simon, etc.

Now should it go pop as mine did you don’t need to spend anythink like the money you’re spending on the K. A replacement 200hp Honda can be sourced for about 700 pounds upwards. Try and do that when a superK goes pop…

OK… sounds interesting. Would love to see a detailed price list.

Simon why not post it up? Nothing secret surely. Everyone seems happy to post the Honda, Audi and Duratec prices.

The Honda is already smooth and my attraction to it is the fact that it is a standard production engine. Cheap to replace should it go pop. And given it’s 200hp stock not 118 there is more scope to go higher if so desired.

I was originally booked in with DVA, but I didn’t feel I could get 200hp reliabily. Just to many horror stories. If your theories are proven right more power to you. But this has been dragging on now for a couple of years. In the meantime people can’t be bothered to wait and go for the proven solution. Must be getting on for 60 cars now vs. 1 - Uldis, who hasn’t been spotted where it counts mixing it up with the rest of us…

I’m surprised you would commission parts without getting a least an estimate before hand. And if you didn’t you must know yourself then what a part was going to cost. I would imagine those who you are building engines for have received an estimate from you. That would be a good starting point at least.

I know that the discussion is not about power (to a certain point) - which is why I and others have banged on about the reliability of using a production class engine. The problem with discussing reliability is that the act of talking about it does not constitute proving it. That can only be done with a statistically relevant number of engines on the road/track. I’m sure you will agree this point.

Since you bought up the power issue. I know of a K20A2 in NZ currently making 270whp with a stock block, ported head, crower stage 2 cams and TWM ITB’s. This was done using a Link ECU with no VTC control. The engine was remapped by Hondata a couple of days ago with the Link exchanged for a Hondata ECU (VTC re-enabled). Waiting for the graph’s but torque peaked at 180ftlb - not bad, peak power about the same as before. Engine has been rock solid other than a cam chain tensioner failure a while ago. Now it’s not hard to imagine what would be possible if the bottom end was given a good going over…

… Must be getting on for 60 cars now vs. 1 - Uldis, who hasn’t been spotted where it counts mixing it up with the rest of us…

Well, I’ve been a few times down south, but don’t see any of the Selocer’s bunch drive up to Knockhill.
Actually, there was this occasion, where Bob Van melzen, Steve Butts and a handful of others came up, for the Tut Towers event.
I’ll try to go to the southern tracks more often, but promise you guys will try to come up here more often

I’m planning on getting to Knockhill in the next couple of months. Bit of a swan song before I go back to NZ. I’m hoping you and the new and improved Tut will show me around.

Will reply to your post in a moment Simon.

Great! looking forward to seeing you up here.

OK referring to the engine in NZ. The guy that owns it is a cow cocky (no surprises there I suppose being a kiwi). He operates on a shoe string budget. Other than the mods I listed which are very very mild the engine is stock. If the engine goes pop - he’s not looking at big money for a rebuild. Now the SuperK may be reliable - yet to be proven, but let’s assume it is. But before we go on first we need to decide what is the defination of reliability. When it comes to engines it seems to be based a general feeling in the community. The K is not considered to be reliable but the K20 is. Despite the fact that the K20 is considered to be reliable they still go pop - as I found out (although the engine did appear to be blame free - you have the photos yourself). So what I’m getting to is even the SuperK will go pop, no matter how reliable it is. I’m looking at 700 pounds for a UK K20A2 up to around 1500 pounds for a JDM K20A. Whereas the SuperK will be magnitudes more depending on the damage.

Now the market for the K20 and the SuperK is primarly people like Uldis and myself - keen track day warriors with widely varying ability levels. I know my engine and g/box weight more, but I have despatched all manner of cars despite the weight penalty, from GT3 RS’s to SC Honda’s. Point being at our level the nut behind the wheel makes a much bigger difference than a few extra kg. 200hp and uber reliability is what people like Uldis and I want (correct me if I’m wrong). And should it go pop as it probably will do at some point since we don’t rebuild the engine every year/race etc, we don’t want to be facing a monster bill to fix things. As to the issues you pointed out regarding the K20, your info I guess is gathered from the BTCC guys. Us track day warriors don’t subject our engines to that kind of sustained abuse and my engine was quite healthy in regards to the points you raised. In addition Simon (S) seems to be going ok in the Britcar series which is an endurance racing series. No doubt he’ll be learning some lessons, but he has don’t an awful lot better so far than he ever did with the K, although he wasn’t running a SuperK

If Tut is anyone to go by I have another 25 years of trackdays ahead of me

Another reason I like my Duratec… provided I dont kill my camshafts a replacement engine would be around the �1K mark (brand new)…

Only mentioned BTCC because you did

If I was running a 200hp K20A2 (wish I was in hindsight). I’m looking at 700 smackers to replace it, end of story.

If I’m running a 200hp SuperK, what am I looking at?

If you can deliver all this then pop up a price list (even if you have to make some guestimates). You’ll have people biting your hand off.