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The Oily Bits S1 Specific Topics
101

Come on chaps, this is meant to be interesting, not nasty, even if you don’t all agree!

Ian

102

…the queue is getting longer !!

Oh go on then Mr Lane, while you’ve got the keys out!

103

OK That is three !!

104

Simon

We are a simple lot here, and we enjoy teasing each other… but that’s as far as it goes

Thanks for a hugely enjoyable debate

I also had a K close to Steve Butts spec, and it was no way as fast as the Hondas, and I am no longer a slow driver !!

105

I also had a K close to Steve Butts spec, and it was no way as fast as the Hondas

That was something weird, because on track my car was (at 187 BHP)

106

Ah, but then I was a cr@p driver

107

*** Coming to a track near you soon ***

ULDIS vs LANE - The re-match

This time Mike cheats





[Please note, racing on a trackday will invalidate your insurance and may get you excluded! ]

108

My 2 cents worth. I had the pleasure a couple weeks back of driving a Honda conversion, the new toyota powered version and my k series all in an afternoon on the track. Bernard built my motor pretty close to Steve B’s specs. You couldn’t pay me enough to put one of those engines in my car. There’s NO torque. Way too much shifting to keep them in the power band. Now I can’t comment on the audi conversion, but maybe after visiting Bernard next week…

109

Suggest you buy an automatic if you don’t like changing gear. All of the cars you mention can get to 60mph comfortably under 5 seconds. This does not imply a lack of torque…

110

Ian

Changing gear only wastes time. I suggest you try to blag a go in Steve B’s car to see what a good spread of torque is all about, and remember it’s only a 1.8.

Bernard

111

Bernard, I agree but you know where I’m coming from. All of the cars mentioned have similar close ratio boxes and on the track I imagine even the mightly Audi requires you to prod the gear stick about the same number of times. Look forward to seeing your car at Bruntingthorpe - we may finally get some real 0 - 60’s.

p.s new manifold on my car = much fatter torque curve than before. Dyno chart on request

112

<To have a better idea of my (and, to a certain extent, also Rover one) point, please have a look at > HGF and remote thermostat
HTH
Carlo

Carlo

what a great link… why didn’t i ever see this before…

113

I find this thread hard to believe
SteveB

mmm… don’t know about that, but i tell you one thing it defo is… and that’s bloody interesting.

One thing for sure… its attracting a lot of new posters and lurkers out of the woodwork…

I hope no-one goes in the huff tho’ because everyones opinion is valued

114

Simon… is it me, or are your power/torque figures getting lower and lower?

I had a 200+ K, so I’m well aware of the work that goes into them. I’m also vaguely aware of how much work went into Steves engine.

I’m also aware that it’s the only n/a K thats made anything like the torque you claim in an Elise. Sure, there’s 220hp engines out there, but how many of them have a decent midrange and this claimed 160lb.ft ? I only know of one, and you correctly identified it as Steves. Even then, its been a struggle to get the 220bhp. Steve was stuck at 206 for a long while.

Bri

Brian
I ain’t about to fall out with you here, as you have far more experience of this than me but… I have to ask in these engines you know of first hand… how much time was spent getting the tolerances, balancing etc right… ?? Isn’t it more common to spend a fortune on parts and then stick em all together (BTW i ain’t suggesting its always this blunt but i would hazard that most… even reputable builders skimp on the finer detail stuff because it takes time is fidgity and costs more money)…i’m sure that’s the point Simon is making…

Plenty K’s have problems (esp HGF) but there are also many more out there that haven’t had any problems and my (admittedly limited) knowledge suggests that most of the unreliable ones are modded ??.. isn’t it very difficult to get the liners to stand proud by the correct amount and also put the head back on straight without a wee shoogle around while settling it back onto block ??

regarding power and torque… isn’t it true that 170-180 bhp K’s develop about 130 ftlbs so why is it so hard to believe that 220 bhp won’t be making around 160 ftlb esp if you haven’t increased the rev limit…

115

Please stop refering to BTCC Mugen engines. They are not at all relevant to this discussion - we are talking how good the K series is and how easy it is to get 220bhp and that it will be bullet proof. Not how we can get a production block to make as much power as possible with the limitation of the F3 air restrictor.

Your poor case for the K keeps going off topic by trying to discuss too many claims that you are makign in one thread.

SteveB

Aww Steve, thats a bit unfair… there are quite a few posts from my distinguished friends in this thread that are way way off topic and Simons quote is not that far off at all… and in any case whose thread is it ??

116

Suggest you buy an automatic if you don’t like changing gear. All of the cars you mention can get to 60mph comfortably under 5 seconds. This does not imply a lack of torque…

mmm Ian… you sure this argument stacks up ??

117

Hi Ian

Now I’ve changed the gearbox from that horrible diesel thing I have to change gear all the time. It no longer does 115 in 3rd !!

I’d very interested to see your dyno chart.

I’ve nothing against the K engine, other than its a bloody expensive engine to modify because in reality you have to throw so many components away to get the power/reliability out if it.

Bernard

118

Hopefully here is the power grpah of Ians car against the Duratec and a previous iteration of Steve Butts. All three have changed since, Ians has more low down torque due to a new manifold, Steves has changed as he has detailed above and this was a very early printout for the Duratec and I believe this has changed a lot since.

[image]http://forums.seloc.org/images/upload/Avatar/1736.jpg[/image]

119

or an Audi (havn’t driven one myself yet but by all accounts they sound pretty bloody brilliant)

Chris - you can drive mine, just as soon as Bernard has finished it !!

(Form a queue !!!)

BTW Bernards is pretty low powered compared to Matt’s which is also a lot lighter, and also has the motorsport aeros…

Go on then… twist my arm . I hope it’s not too good though, don’t want to go changing my engine AGAIN!

120

I’ve nothing against the K engine, other than its a bloody expensive engine to modify because in reality you have to throw so many components away to get the power/reliability out if it.

Bernard

Hear, hear, well put Bernard