Need some urgent advice guys - hitting the track this weekend and I cannot find a proper guide to the settings on two way adjustable Nitrons.
What I gathered so far is that 10 from full hard rebound front and 8 from full hard rear is a good starting point. Compression is to be kept at two clicks furthers from hard.
Is this a good starting point? Or can someone please indicate where I can find a guide to suspension set up and tire pressures to counter over or under steer.?
I shall be running slicks weather permitting and r888s if it rains.
Why don’t you give them a call… ask for Mark, he may be able to offer you some good advice.
T: +44 (0)1993 849449
Generally, in my luddite experience, I have found that on my NITRON one way dampers, if you ‘harden’ the dampers on the rear you get more oversteer, ‘harden’ them on the front more understeer. So alter those in proportion for a change you need… e.g. I was having some mid-corner understeer issues so I softened the front damping (to reduce understeer) and hardened the rear damping (to increase oversteer). That then made the car more neutral. I think that a good geo is the key to good handling and that is the best place to start. A lot of guys use the 340 geo settings with good effect.
I think wet needs a softer more roll compliant set-up.
Only do one change at a time however otherwise you wont know what any change in handling has been due to!
This is all probably bollox however!!!
Drop SeanB a PM as he has many hours of track/race experience!!!
However with independent bump and rebound adjustments you can get yourself in a bit of a knot.
John and I have done a few track days where we basically start from scratch. We turn everything to full soft and you go out for a few laps, come in and report and then systematically stiffen everything up so the handling, feel and response get better and better, until you finally go over the top and it starts to get worse. This is the only way really to know what works for you and your car. Suspension settings are a personal thing.
So many people have adjustable dampers and literally NEVER adjust them. Or they have one ‘track’ setting and one ‘drive home’ setting. That is just pants.
I will tweak mine a good few times each track day as the temperature, track surface etc etc etc all make a difference and if you dont tweak stuff, you will never learn anything or make anything better.
The other thing that gets me, is people who try to make their driving fit their car. So they have their one track setting, that they have read about on the internet and then blame themselves for any issues. It should all be about making the car fit your driving. We are all different in areas like, how hard we brake, how late we brake, do we trail the brake into the corner, do we like a ‘loose’ car or something that is rock steady etc etc etc. It should always be about making the car fit you.
Just get out there and have a twiddle.
As far as a good starting point for your Nitrons, as Pete has said, give them a call and have a chat with them and I am sure they will give you some settings. Just remember that it is only a starting point and you should twiddle away from that point on.
Every time we have the Ohlins revalved or resprung, they always come back with a place to start, but we have never ended up with what they have stated as a starting point.
The other thing to be on top of is tyre pressures. get yourself a good pressure gauge and constantly monitor and readjust your pressures as they will go up and you are aiming to get them as constant as possible.
A lot of tyre places dont have good moisture filters on their compressors so you end up with a lot of moisture in your tyres and it is this that increases the pressure so much as they warm up.
One of the race guys, David Harvey is lucky enough to have a diving spec compressor with a really good dryer and he hardly has any pressure increases over the course of a track session.
Will try giving them a call thanks - I scoured the net the past days but cannot find reliable information. I understand it is an entirely personal preference which settings to go for, and that it shall always vary depending on track conditions, driver and car but I thought there might be a ‘range’ which can get me started in the right direction.
This is a time-attack challenge and we only get 4 sessions of 15 minutes maximum each. So my starting point needs to be a good one and I have less margin of error so to put it.
Furthermore it might rain so I might be switching between slicks and semi slicks during the day.
My car was at Hangar 111 this summer as i shipped it over to the UK for a Jubu gear installation and Greg took it to have it’s ride heights set and corner weighting carried out so Geo should be fine as it is.
Have a play really, my 46mm Nitrons (1 ways thou, as I’m not clever enough to twiddle 2s) came dialed 14F & 12R (clicks from full hard) and I found stiffening them did make turn in better but I lost mid corner stability.
Sean’s right, I really wasn’t expecting it to be so much of a personal thing. I like a car that compliant, moves around a little with a sharper front end so understeer dialed out and let the back do what it does. However thinking that I could get more of what I want from stiffening my factory ARB or getting a aftermarket one.
Also weather make a difference, you’ll want to soften them off in the wet and naturally the track itself; what works at brands wont at silverstone.
Just to echo this - I’ve always done similar with my own cars and with other drivers, but approaching it from both ends:
Everything on full soft - out for a few laps
Everything on full hard - out for a few laps
That way it’s obvious what effects the changes have. Then work away to get a decent base setting that can be tweaked to suit track, weather, etc, etc.
On the subject of ‘road’ & ‘track’ settings, one time I left mine on the track settings I’d been using; on the way home had to drive about 10 miles on a concrete-surfaced road…it was like driving on a fairground ‘cakewalk’ ride (for anyone old enough to remember them!!).
Good point on the water trap fitment on the compressor .
I have a high quality glass bowl type and it traps loads.
Never really thought about the effect of moisture in the tyres but now Sean’s pointed it out it makes sense
[quote=SeanB]Or they have one ‘track’ setting and one ‘drive home’ setting. That is just pants.
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Nothing wrong with that as a “trackday driver” IMO mate, makes the most of your time. Home, Wet or Dry, different track depending sometimes. Testing on the other hand maybe, I dunno.
[quote=scoob]Lots of Tyre fitters now offer nitrogen inflation.
Not tried it myself…should work tho [/quote]
Not sure how it’d ever get discovered but check with any competition regs that you’re allowed to nitrogen fill tyres. I know of many championships where you’re not.
Have spoken to Mark from Nitron. Thanks for the advice. Super helpful and he is meant to send me an email with further info.
What i’ve gathered so far is that 2 to 4 clicks harder than the recommended settings is a good start as track settings. The recommended settings or two clicks softer for uneven surfaces are for ‘street settings’.
Do not use the parameters closer to the maximum/minimum settings - if you are close to full hard and still ‘roll’ you need higher spring rate or re-valving.
When using slicks go two clicks harder.
If you have understeer back off front compression two clicks
Oversteer - stiffen up compression back and front and soften rebound slightly.
Might be obvious to all of you but I found the above helpful!
[quote=jonnyfox][quote=SeanB]Or they have one ‘track’ setting and one ‘drive home’ setting. That is just pants.
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Nothing wrong with that as a “trackday driver” IMO mate, makes the most of your time. Home, Wet or Dry, different track depending sometimes. Testing on the other hand maybe, I dunno.
Edit to say, then play with tyre pressures.
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Its not pants at all Sean… I would argue that unless you have a good knowledge in car set up then all you will do is chase your tail and actually slow your driving down, not make you faster.
Ive always set my dampers up and balanced them on the dyno. Once they are where we want them we leave them exactly as is. Reason for me being is that everytime i get in the car it behaves exactly the same. Just like operating any type of motorized epuipment, wether it be a car, bike, milk float or peice of construction epuipment, you only ever become truly proficient in it once you become part of it, know it for every little inch and what its going to do in any given situation. That only comes with time in the seat with it operating under your arse exactly the same each time.
I dont deny that there will be time to gain in adjusting to the day, condtions, track but for 98% of us it wont make us any faster. Find a nice setting and as john says, turn up, drive and go home.
Adjustable shocks are great. First off I did play with the settings along with the ARB and tyre pressures and the car is now ssooooo much better than with the non adjustable billies but once adjusted mine stay put unless it gets wet or I simply, just want to play. Only use my car for track days tho. I would play with a road setting too if it were a daily driver although not sure it would be that far off what I use on track if any thing.
Sorry Jonny and Gav, but if you dont adjust stuff how will you ever improve the car?!?! Plus if you dont adjust for the conditions how will you ever keep the car at its best. Simply saying “it will be OK” and burying your head in the sand, is far from getting the most out of your setup.
You dont need to be Fernando Alonso to know if its under steering or over steering.
You are both good enough to really gain an advantage, although Jonny, it would mean you would have to do stuff and not be a lazy git and Gav, it would take away from your posing around the pit lane time!
[quote=Muu][quote=SeanB]
You are both good enough to really gain an advantage, although Jonny, it would mean you would have to do stuff and not be a lazy git and Gav, it would take away from your posing around the pit lane time!
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)))
