New Elise

General General Lotus Talk
41

Steve

The reality is that even though there is a “customer base”, they presently struggle to sell more than 2000 new cars a year. This perceived “customer base” is in fact largely made up of folks able to spend �10K to �30K on a car - new or used. Take your average “Buckles Meet” - how many of us have actually bought a new Lotus over the last 30 years?

They can’t continue as they are/have been doing, so it’s shit or bust, & the vast majority of existing owners/fans are not the target market.

42

Why can’t they introduce the new products alongside the existing range though, surely there is an engine that could go in the Exige?

43

[quote=Mr Pesky]Steve

The reality is that even though there is a “customer base”, they presently struggle to sell more than 2000 new cars a year. This perceived “customer base” is in fact largely made up of folks able to spend �10K to �30K on a car - new or used. Take your average “Buckles Meet” - how many of us have actually bought a new Lotus over the last 30 years?
[/quote]

Or even just ‘support’ Lotus in aftermarket mods :wink: & the dealer network.

We can all share some of the blame for that :frowning:

44

I agree in some ways they need to change their target market, but in that respect I do wonder about all the rows with Lotus F1, surely the presence in F1, even if at the back, wouldstrengthen the brand and bring in customers, all the bitching about rights just makes them look childish and amateur :frowning:

45

There is alot to be gained from the F1 involvement if one or two primadonna’s just bury the hatchet.

Sadly it appears they can’t see past their own ego’s.

46

The issues with the dealers was their lack of ability to help due to constraints placed on them by Lotus, to start with they would not sell the ECU upgrade for our cars, I was always amazed when CN managed to convince them into selling it at an affordable price.
The AP brake upgrades as well are awkwardly done by Lotus, they now supply the solid discs to make more money rather than giving the real upgrade people were expecting :frowning:

47

[quote=Mr Pesky]They can’t continue as they are/have been doing, so it’s shit or bust, & the vast majority of existing owners/fans are not the target market. [/quote] I understand that “we” are not the target market, but it would seem somewhat foolish to just ditch them/us.
A steady growth of the 2000 new cars to (say) 3000 with one or two new models over 5 years, refining its existing models, keeping its existing customer base, is surely more likely to succeed than the stratospheric growth plan that we have just seen

48

[quote=ade]The issues with the dealers was their lack of ability to help due to constraints placed on them by Lotus, to start with they would not sell the ECU upgrade for our cars, I was always amazed when CN managed to convince them into selling it at an affordable price.
The AP brake upgrades as well are awkwardly done by Lotus, they now supply the solid discs to make more money rather than giving the real upgrade people were expecting :frowning: [/quote]

Not sure what you mean there. I got the 260 upgrade at Lotus no problem, at the same time as the CN conversion started.

The AP system (non-solid disc) has always been available from Lotussport & is fitted to the 260Cup cars.

49

[quote=Boothy]Well I guess I am the only one who feels really saddened by yesterday :frowning:
I am probably a little sad but I have loved Lotus since school and I’ll never forget the day I saw my first elise. They have always been different, a true British company that flew in the face of everyone else.
Less is more, add lightness etc… I have always loved the Lotus way of doing things, a true underdog who at times managed to come out on top.
Lets not forget that everytime a supercar is actually any good the motoring press call it a ‘big elise’ …
Lotus ownership for me has been something special, I have never met such friendly people or felt such a sense of community. The guys at the dealers are spot on and even those at Lotus have always seemed like you could just pick up a phone and talk to them.

From what I can see the new management have paid no attention to any of this, they are hell bent on trying to build some sort of mini Ferrari fireing off the existing Lotus owner in favour of the super rich.
In the elise promo they say it’s grown up and matured… Well it’s not an elise then because thats what the elise is all about.
They have totally removed the existing Lotus look in favour of an Audi like corporate face where you cannot tell one car from another
and none of them say Lotus if you removed the badge.

I also read that they are going to remove the existing dealer network as twenty six dealers is to many for a prestige brand… they are going to have the grand total of three! So are Porsche not a prestige brand then because they have thirty four dealers. I am not sure how they expect to sell cars with no dealers so I am guessing we are not the market they want.

Well I’m going on now but I really do feel like I have had my car company taken away from me. The Lotus DNA seems to be gone and from what I can see I will not have any interest in the new cars even if I can afford them.

Looks like I am keeping the S2… one day I might even upgrade to an S1 :frowning:

[/quote]

I half agree with your point Boothy however I do have some issues with parts of it.

As we all know Lotus can’t sustain their current way of working and first and foremost they are a business. They absolutely, at all costs have to make money and turn a profit. You mention they are moving away from existing owners in favour of the super rich, personally I say this is a good call, even if it means I will no longer be able to purchase one of these new cars.

Unfortunately most of us have to face up to the fact that for years we’ve been getting away with supercar performance for 1/3 of the cost! Lotus now has to start making serious money or else they will disappear, so why not charge the going rate for such performance? The vast majority of their current customer base, doesn’t have the money to buy a new Porsche, Ferrari, Aston etc, so they needed to take a step completely away from their current product line, which I think is where this new styling has come from.

If they designed a car that had characteristics shared with current Lotus models, everyone would be up in arms about a blatant attempt to rip customers off by just giving the car a different name and charging twice as much. What they have done is create a whole new range, all sharing certain design criteria, and launched them all at once. If these cars were released at intervals over the next 5 years, we would see a string of well designed cars, perhaps it is overwhelming because they have come all at once?

In addition to people citing that they all look the same - how about the S2 elise and exige - they look virtually identical!!

Personally I cannot wait to see how these cars perform and are priced, I just hope that the Elan is going to be in the region of �50-60k in todays money, and by 2015 I have enough saved up!

50

Eloquently put Lee, nice one…


… but are you sure you’re not already a posh Ferarri/Porsche owner? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

51

[quote=tim_marra][quote=ade]The issues with the dealers was their lack of ability to help due to constraints placed on them by Lotus, to start with they would not sell the ECU upgrade for our cars, I was always amazed when CN managed to convince them into selling it at an affordable price.
The AP brake upgrades as well are awkwardly done by Lotus, they now supply the solid discs to make more money rather than giving the real upgrade people were expecting :frowning: [/quote]

Not sure what you mean there. I got the 260 upgrade at Lotus no problem, at the same time as the CN conversion started.

The AP system (non-solid disc) has always been available from Lotussport & is fitted to the 260Cup cars. [/quote]

But at nothing like a sensible price, and they put on weird requirements like having to have an Accusump, which I never understood as you were not going around corners any faster…

52

I agree with some of your points, clearly Lotus have to turn a proffitt and cannot just carry on the way they are. I have said for a long time they need to start building a new Esprit and other higher end/proffit margin cars.
However to totally pull away from your existing customer base and everything you are known for seems like total madness to me. There is no reason why they could not have built a new elise using true Lotus core values and DNA, a proper hardcore elise not some bloated MX5 clone.
They could have sold it for �30-�40k easily which seems to be the price point for the new fat boy version and by putting less in they would I am sure of made a higher proffitt on it.
Where is the 211 of tomorrow or any future track cars? The new cars look bloated and I am sorry to say just do not do it for me.
There are lots of Lotus owners who could buy a new elise at that price point if it was good enough but looking at the new range they are totally pulling away from the current target market in favour of a different market that currently they do not have a share in. Madness.
They have proven with the Evora that the market they are after is not going to be an easy one to crack and personally I think they will struggle looking this time at the bland look of the new range.

Yep I am sorry to say I am worried this will all end in tears, I just hope that someone will come in to pick up the left over bits and give us back our turnip farming enthusiasts who work late for no pay to give us cars like the S1 exige and 211.

Boothy

53

Just found my Boothy box�

I just thought 5 cars all looking very similar almost soulless at possibly very similar prices launched with such extravaganza led by a brown nose who I really don’t like the look of (although maybe Antoine De Gaunes without the je na said quoi) or could trust�…too hollow! Oh and I forgot 100 year old Bub, yes Ten Gallon slash billion Bob Lutz who couldn’t make it :tired: and why, he�s too fecking old (generalize) to give a sh1t! (No matter) Point being �that�ll work�.

And I can’t stand Naomi fecking Campbell, if she taints Lotus anymore with her bullshit it’s never going to work! I actually think LR getting Posh was a masterstroke, totally brilliant, I applaud them, one tiny move of a chess piece! Who here knows of a geezer who drives a Qashqai let alone a posh one!

The whole launch was utter bollox and I understand everything everyone has said. Maybe they should have built on the Evora, a giant step…Cayman rivalling :sunglasses:
Where are Porsche and Ferrari going to be in 5 years time, for Proton and Lotus I hope each of them will have put there R&D Departments on part time. This whole idea if first impression last is built souly on image and nothing to do with the Lotus heritage we have all come to love and know. And that ignorance will be imho there biggest mistake. I�d like to give them a chance but I never want to see that fecking Piranha bitch stand anywhere near a Lotus ever again! Get someone who at least knows where the brake pedal is�������And reapply a bit of passion because it�s not hard to find, they just seem to have forgotten how important that is. We may not be able to afford a new one in the future but will we be telling the chap who buys one in 2015 how good it is when the relevant Porsche or Ferrari is truly great for it�s time! Not an honest Brit anyway :frowning:.

54

[quote=jonnyfox]Just found my Boothy box�

I just thought 5 cars all looking very similar almost soulless at possibly very similar prices launched with such extravaganza led by a brown nose who I really don’t like the look of (although maybe Antoine De Gaunes without the je na said quoi) or could trust�…too hollow! Oh and I forgot 100 year old Bub, yes Ten Gallon slash billion Bob Lutz who couldn’t make it :tired: and why, he�s too fecking old (generalize) to give a sh1t! (No matter) Point being �that�ll work�.

And I can’t stand Naomi fecking Campbell, if she taints Lotus anymore with her bullshit it’s never going to work! I actually think LR getting Posh was a masterstroke, totally brilliant, I applaud them, one tiny move of a chess piece! Who here knows of a geezer who drives a Qashqai let alone a posh one!

The whole launch was utter bollox and I understand everything everyone has said. Maybe they should have built on the Evora, a giant step…Cayman rivalling :sunglasses:
Where are Porsche and Ferrari going to be in 5 years time, for Proton and Lotus I hope each of them will have put there R&D Departments on part time. This whole idea if first impression last is built souly on image and nothing to do with the Lotus heritage we have all come to love and know. And that ignorance will be imho there biggest mistake. I�d like to give them a chance but I never want to see that fecking Piranha bitch stand anywhere near a Lotus ever again! Get someone who at least knows where the brake pedal is�������And reapply a bit of passion because it�s not hard to find, they just seem to have forgotten how important that is. We may not be able to afford a new one in the future but will we be telling the chap who buys one in 2015 how good it is when the relevant Porsche or Ferrari is truly great for it�s time! Not an honest Brit anyway :frowning:.
[/quote]


LOL! Love it! :smiley:

55

Not sure what you mean there. I got the 260 upgrade at Lotus no problem, at the same time as the CN conversion started.

The AP system (non-solid disc) has always been available from Lotussport & is fitted to the 260Cup cars.

But at nothing like a sensible price, and they put on weird requirements like having to have an Accusump, which I never understood as you were not going around corners any faster… [/quote]

ECU upgrade = �495
Plus uprated fuel pump = �600 fitted

The accusump is optional (circa �1200), but given the extra performance & the fact I can hear it working on track days to me makes it money well spent.

56

There is little doubt that Lotus have a huge and very loyal customer base. Probably more so, and certainly more diverse, than any other manufacturer out there. The problem is the vast majority of that customer base don’t but new cars. I’ve bought 3 new Hethel cars in 8 years and I suspect I’m one of a small minority. To prove the point I had the choice of 3 new Exiges when I bought mine a year ago. I was astounded how long it took for the remaining 2 to sell.

Certainly Lotus can’t continue as they have been. Even Proton have their limits with regard to pouring money into Lotus year after year. Something had to give.

And give Proton their due, they’ve not attacked the problem in a half-hearted way - it’s an all-out shit-or-bust plan. Whether it works or not is another matter and I fear it will all end in tears as it has done before. But full marks for effort and deep pockets.

To those who say Lotus have lost sight of their “light is right” approach, well yes they have. But it wasn’t working as far as selling cars was concerned so what alternatives were there?

Lotus is a unique entity. It appears to obey no rules like other manufacturers have to. Even if this attempt fails Lotus will once again defy logic and survive. In what form who knows but it will not be left to die in a corner somewhere.

57

[quote=tim_marra]
Not sure what you mean there. I got the 260 upgrade at Lotus no problem, at the same time as the CN conversion started.

The AP system (non-solid disc) has always been available from Lotussport & is fitted to the 260Cup cars.

But at nothing like a sensible price, and they put on weird requirements like having to have an Accusump, which I never understood as you were not going around corners any faster… [/quote]

ECU upgrade = �495
Plus uprated fuel pump = �600 fitted

The accusump is optional (circa �1200), but given the extra performance & the fact I can hear it working on track days to me makes it money well spent. [/quote]

Tim you started with a PP car, I am still surprised at how little they did though as they wanted me to have a TRD clutch, light flywheel etc, the accusump was a requiement too.
To convert mine they wanted �10k plus VAT.

58

The light flywheel was only an option too. I think the PP cars already have the stronger clutch though.

It’s true that starting with 220 at the factory will cost a small fortune to get 260 :slight_smile:

59

I agree with what everybody has said here. But I’m gonna try and look at it in a different way.

I hope that Lotus has realised they are unique and they can be Jekyll and Hyde. Henry Jekyll (Lotus Cars) is the friendly face of the company, selling posh, high value cars with air con and squishy seats and fluff, so the general person on the street can feel like they are going to a race track every time they get in the car but its also prestige, aimed at the market that usually buy TT’s and Astons etc.

But they also have Edward Hyde (Lotus Motorsport). You can only buy these round the back of the Dealers, from a dodgy guy wearing a hood at night. Sold in small numbers to the existing customer base could be the Exige, and Exige like variants of the Esprit/Elan. These hardcore versions because of their small runs could get away with avoiding a lot of the silly EU laws, and hence could be the same power as their fat versions without all the weight, really sticking to Chapmans values. They won’t be comfy, they won’t be quiet, they’d have plastic windows, and they’ll only come in black, yellow and silver. All have big wings, carbon fibre, no carpets, roll cages as standard, etc, etc. But it’ll be funded by a much more powerful lotus cars. Like a secret coke habit.

By doing this you keep the existing customer base, and become more understood as a brand. If you want comfort and to look cool, buy from Lotus Cars. If you are a bit mad and want to get round the track faster then anything else on the planet, buy from Lotus Motorsport.

It’d work for me.

60

well put Andy, you speak sense and lets hope lotus people think like that too and keep us speed freaks happy in one way or another,

but i think i may have to participate in buying the new esprit until they do so because i think its gorgeous :slight_smile: