Some of you know that a few weeks ago I got nicked by doing 85 in a 60 zone.
The policemen were very courteous and understanding, and they told me that I was going to get a 3 points and 60 pounds fine, but I have nothing in writing.
This was also everybody else’s impression, as the bracket should stop at 85.
I received the paperwork and pleaded guilty. Didn’t go to the court hearing (that was yesterday) because the general consensus was that it wouldn’t help, if anythng it would make it worse.
Today I received the fine, and guess what, it’s 5 points and �180 !
I called and they say because it falls on the third bracket!
1- 66-75 (?)
2- 74-85
3- 84-95 (!)
He mentioned (the clerk) that these were made for consistency.
But it doesn’t make sense, how can they overlap then? it’s not consistent! I fall on the second bracket and also on the third!
I want to appeal, and requestd the appeal paperwork.
But he told me to get legal advise. If I proceed with the appeal , the court hearing is going to be in Edinburgh.
Any lawyer around here? Should I go ahead with the appeal?
If I was you I would just hand over the cheque. A friend of mine appealed and ended up far worse off. Part of the problem is that you had already pleaded guilty and left yourself in the hands of the magistrates.
I got clobbered for 92 in a 60 in North Wales at 6:00am on an empty road. Went to court 6 points and 350.00 fine.
Hmmmmm…I got caught 6 weeks ago now going to buy my Exige. I over took a Honda Type R, and got stopped for 93 in a 60 limit. Im awaiting the hearing date.
Anyone now how long you wait for the notice? And is it true that if you dont recieve notice within a certain time its no longer applicable?
Hope I’m wrong but I always understood that 30mph over the limit got a ban, then again on the positive side I also thought you had to hear within 2 weeks. I was unfortunate to get a 28 day ban 5 years ago for over 100 on the M6 and I had a clean licence. Fingers crossed you dont hear anything.
30 mph over the limit does not always get you a ban, the magistrates can use their discetion so if you have a clean licence and you were not driving dangerously you can escape a ban. You will get 6 points and a fairly heavy fine though!
I cringed in court (North Wales) when the duty solicitor stated that I was on my way to my Welsh holiday cottage though !!
The “Get out of jail” books say you should always plead not guilty! Unless they have followed you and clocked you over a timed distance in a pursuit vehicle with calibrated speedo that is! Then you are stuffed. The usual trick is to get you to confess to going over the limit. They know in court it does not stack up. I have had this with a speed gun. I just said that by their own info, it says you need 2 seconds of clear view to be accurate. They probably clocked a car going in the wrong direction. How often do you get 2 secs with no other traffic these days! Watch for the new cameras that meassure average speed though. Get a Road Angel!
It must vary a lot between counties as I got 28day ban, substantial fine but no points. I was only speeding in very quite part of M6 (cumbria) and was caught by plod when i slowed before junction where traffic joined.
Ok, I screwed up by pleading guilty, never again.
It was with a laser gun and the chaps were so nice that I believed when they said max 3 points and the fine.
I didn’t even see them until I saw the policeman coming out from his hideout waving at me.
But now, should I bite the bullet? or appeal?
PS - in this case you can receive the notification in up to 3 months. The 2 week thing is for Gatsos, where nobody stopped you, then they have the 2 weeks only.
I didn’t even see them until I saw the policeman coming out from his hideout waving at me.
For future reference, any speed traps using hand held equipment MUST be in plain view of the road they are watching.
I got caught out by this myself as the nice police man was hiding in a bush and NOT wearing his reflective jacket. I only found out, after pleading guilty myself, that had i mentioned this they couldnt press and charges as the police officer was breaking the law himself with his actions.
My end result was a �350 fine, 21 day ban but 0 points.
I can only hope the Magistrate looks on my clean licence, and the fact that it was a bright day, a mile straight with no one else on it!..appart from this blood Honda Type R …Not cricket eh chaps!
So if I hear nothing in 3 months Im clear?
Last question, re insurance. For those who’ve been done what impact on premium was made?
I think that there is a bit of confusion creeping in here. You must be notified within 14 days that you may be prosecuted (NIP). The summons must be issued within 6 months of the date of the alleged offence.
The 14 day rule is usually met in one of two ways, either by verbal notification at the time by police officer (‘you will be reported…’) or in writing in the case of GATSO’s.
The reasoning behind this is, that it would be unfair to expect you to mount a defence against an allegation concerning events more than two weeks prior. The NIP puts you on notice to sort your defence out (or plead guilty). The six month rule effectively is a statute of limitations for summary matters ie it would be unfair to have the matter hanging over your head to long. Six months applies to the issue of the summons, not the hearing.
Ok, I’m appealing then.
Even if it causes a stir and P*sses off people, I don’t think they’ll give me more points for that, so I’m going to represent myself in court.
Seriously though, don’t do it. You may win (very doubtful, cos I really can’t see on what grounds you have to successfully appeal), but you run the risk of getting even more points &/or fine.
One other thought - do you have both a UK, & a Mexican driving licence?
Remember you have already pled guilty, so this won’ stand you in much good for an appeal. However, i totally understand how you feel and figure i’d be the same. You might want to do a www search on “raod traffic offenders act 1988” before deciding tho’ This might give you a fighting start? Otherwise it might be wise to put it down to experience and pay up. BTW weren’t you given a fixed penalty notice of �60?? or did you ignore this and wait to see what happened?
Also remember - any advice you get about magistrates etc ain’t any good - you are in Scotland now and in the hands of the Procurator Fiscal… bear this in mind when you research the issue on the web (keep adding Scotland to any searches) the law is quite different.
At the end of the day remember that regardless of what the official line is – they basically enforce speeding offences to generate revenue – it has little to do with road safety. With this in mind the Procurator Fiscal may not look lightly on you ‘wasting his time’ unless you present a strong case or perhaps a mexican driving licence??
I was thinking of filming the part of the road where I was stopped to show how hidden was the police car and the policemen, they absolutely could not be seen.
If they could not be seen, how can they see me?
Then, how do I know that the 85mph didn’t belong to another car? I don’t see how was I going that fast.
I was never given anything written, they only mentioned the 60mph and 3 points, which I agreed then, they mentioned it was going to arrive by post. They also mentioned that they were going to write down the good weather conditions and the fact that it was an empty road. What arrived by post was a NIP, and they hadn’t mentioned any of this.
Yes, I also have a Mexican driving license, why? (you and Pesky mentioned)
And yes, I intend to represent myself and study wherever I can all about the Scottish law.
Dont know about you, but the statement that the conservatives made about raising the speed limit to 80 and reducing cameras rocks!!! - Regarding your appeal, I spoke to a freind today who’s a Justice of the Peace regarding getting a character statement, and he’s advised me just to take the punishment Im dealt. Appealing to a crime your guilty of will only bring you further court costs, and 99/100 no reduction of the initial penalty.
I now dread the postman in the mornings…Good luck to you though!
Uldis,
I’m a Scottish lawyer. I specialise in property investment/development, and know sod all about criminal law. notwithstanding that, like any lawyer I’m willing to give an opinion.
You have pled guilty to the charge, so I’m not sure on what grounds you plan to appeal. Seems to me that the grounds are that it wisny fair what happened [which in fairness is often used now in the context of Human rights]. I suspect that you will end up wsting time and enegy in the company of those you’d rather not be near, all to save 2 points and some petrol money. Ask yourself whether it’s worth it…
Just so you know you’re not alone… that poor sod of an ambulance driver rushing a liver to a transplant operation was being prosectuted for doing 104mph while Jack Straw was able to do 104mph while late for a meeting and the police had no intentions of prosecuting him !
After looking at the link Pesky sent me (http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/frames.htm) reviewing all the info and opinions you guys have pointed out I realize I have made a big, irrecoverable mistake: admitting twice that I was speeding, once verbally with the police, twice when I did it in writing.
I followed the procedure that normally works in other countries, admitting, looking sorry, being nice, etc.
Wrong here, no more.
So in this case I don’t really have any grounds to appeal.
The British system is s new thing for me: very polite, but in reality they’re trying to fck you as much as they can, and only with the vile objective of increasing revenue for the state, behind a safe and wellwishing bullshte mask.
I have always been a friend of the police in different places I’ve been, with the concept that if you’re good to them, they are also genuiney nice to you.
There may be some good, fair policemen out there, but the system works them this way.
Knowing all this, I now pledge to study well the system, will never plead guilty of a traffic offense and fight it there and then.
Te police here has lost a friend (not that they care).
And I will accept the 5 points and fine.
Dominic, study the link above, highly recommended.
Uldis