have many (un-intentionally) spun their exige s2?

General General Lotus Talk
1

hi all.as i have mentioned in previous threads i will hopefully get an exige s soon. However i came across this article on pistonheads

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15&t=859949&mid=0&i=0&nmt='Everyone I know with an Elise has spun it at some point’&mid=0

have many people spun or lost control of their s2 exige on the road (without meaning to)? i do understand that many people have done so on the track however i will only be using my car on the road and would like to know how to prevent this. From the article above i have gathered that one cause for this if people are driving a bit TOO spirited on the road in corners (especially in the wet with the semi slick tires that exiges have).

However my main concern is that quite a few mentioned of “low speed” incidents and something called “lift off” especially in corners and enerting/leaving roundabouts was the main cause. can someone explain what lift off is exactly please as i have a rough idea but not totally sure what it is. im guessing its something to do with lifting your foot off the accelerator?. does “lifting off” only become a hazard if the car is already losing control in a bend or at a roundabout or does this create a hazard when just “lifting off” the accelerator in general during a bend or roundabout?

sorry for my lack of knowledge its just i have never owned a rear wheel drive before so i would like to gain more knowledge on the topic before i get my exige s.

thanks everyone in advance for their replies

2

Don’t believe some of the crap in that thread. IMHO no worse than any other road car, except, when the back does let go it is quicker and harder to catch due to the additional weight over the rear wheels. On the road you would have to be either driving like a fool, get caught on a difficult surface or intentionally kick the back out.

Lift off, ie. off the throttle mid corner, causes weight transfer to the front increasing front end grip and lessening the rear. This causes oversteer which could lead to a spin if their is insufficient rear end grip.

No substitute for driver training, one of the better known for Lotus is Andy Walsh at www.carlimits.com or Lotus drivers academy days. Personally I think a day with Walshy is more fun :smiley:

3

Never spun on the road. BUT had plenty of training with Andy Walsh / Car limits. Doesn’t mean I became a driving god, just that I slowed down on the road and knew when to be more careful.

4

Echo what the others have said. A couple of points :

  • It is out of the box a road-biased track car and won’t bite unless provoked. Running semi-slick tyres on a lightweight RWD car means you have to give it respect when the roads are wet (esp standing water wet).

  • If you’ve never had a RWD sportscar then get yourself on some driver training courses. It would be worth the trip down south to spend some time with Andy Walsh at Carlimits whose main venue is an airfield in Essex called North Weald. Andy is an all round top bloke and I guarantee you’ll feel more at ease and be safer. I think that his training has probably saved a lot of lives and a lot more bent Loti. I can hand on heart say my Exige is still Exige shaped thanks to Andy…cheers Walshy if you read this :slight_smile:

  • You can only really get to understand an Exige if you take it on circuit as that’s where it comes alive. Taking it on track also makes you a much more informed road driver and I find tends to mean you drive slower on the road (except occasionally on the way to Welsh circuits eh :wink: ). We are blessed as a community with the like of LOT and BAT which provide accessible trackdays for all levels including complete track virgins. They also tend to be exceptionally sociable affairs where you end up having a laugh in the paddock as much as hooning around circuit. Summary, don’t write off doing trackdays if you own an Exige you’ll really be missing out if you don’t!

Go for it, buy one, enjoy it, book some training with Walshy and then graduate to trackdays and come along and meet up and hang out with some of the ‘characters’ on here at some trackdays…sorted :sunglasses:

5

Nice write up Ben.

There is also not much diffo between the S2 and S1… or even the Elise! They all share the same chassis, wishbones, with just damping and ride height/geo slightly different… and you can adjust most of that too!

I have had a few mid corner moments, once hitting (as I went back to see!) a large patch of OIL mid 50 mph corner! The back stepped out but these cars are SO instinctive to catch it was a non event really… aside from new jocks! (I learnt to drive on dirt roads in OZ, followed by snow covered roads in Canada… so going sideways is quite natural for me! Having said that, I have never had my Elise/Exige spin on track… but then again I only have a few bhp. :frowning: )

These cars are very safe and predictable to drive. Buy one, drive it, track it, socalise in it. Job done! :slight_smile:

6

You may only have a few ponies but you seem to use them to maximum effect!

I’ll add another recommendation to my list. Get along to a trackday and get a pax with Peter or one of the other serious pedallers to see what’s possible.

7

I firmly think that if you spin a car on the road without provacation (having to stand on the brakes to avoid someone for instance) you were driving to fast for the conditions. Of course there are sometimes extenuating circumstances (oil slick you couldn’t see) but 99% of the time you know in your own mind (not what you admit!) you were driving too fast, especially in the wet\damp…

8

thank you everyone for your very detailed replies. i must say all the members on here are very friendly and helpful are a credit to the website :smiley:. it makes it very welcoming to newcomers. :smiley:

i will ofcourse take my time in the exige, especially in wet conditions

i have just looked at the carlimits website and it seems spot on and i will certainly be doing a driver training day when i get my car, especially because a lot of lotus owners highly recommend walshy.

as for the track days i have been thinking about it quite a bit and i after owning my car for a while and getting used to it then i may start to do some track days. You all seem like a great bunch on here so i bet it would be a great experience.

so just checking does lifting off ONLY become a hazard in mid corner? or is it also a hazard if you do it just before a corner?

im guessing the lift off hazard only happens when the accelerator pedal has been pressed down relavtively hard (ie between half way and fully pressed to the floor) prior to lifting off it again, even if your not going that fast?

or can it happen even under relatively low acceleration?

thanks again

9

if you are going straight you should see no drama at all lifting off, the closer to the limit you are in the corner the larger the drama will be :wink:

10

Firstly, I am just a boggy keen Elise/Exige owner who has had no training how to drive fast, so my thoughts below are just my basic understanding of a bit of stuff. Guys like Sean etc who DO race will I am sure offer even better advice… but in the meantime…

If you are driving your car on the balanced circle limit, ie no further acceleration or deceleraion through a corner, it will stay neutral, ie: no oversteer or understeer. Generally if you then increase the power SMOOTHLY, the car will probably start to understeer and the radius of the circle (ie read ‘corner’) will increase. If you have lots of BHP, and then increase the power rapidly, you may well break traction at the rear and the car will oversteer. :slight_smile: By the same token, if you reduce the power SMOOTHLY, the radius of the circle will decrease.

If you are entering the corner, or are mid-corner going too fast for the given radius as above, then a SUDDEN lift, or braking, will transfer weight to the front of the car and reduce the weight over the rear wheels. This will reduce their grip on the surface and may again lead to oversteer.

If you do the above SMOOTHLY, ie gradually reducing power or indeed left foot braking against the power, this will minimise the weight transfer from rear to front and the car will remain neutral. But if you are going too fast this will still cause you to run wide as the balanced circle limit is now larger than the radius you are on.

The trick is to establish where this lies!, ie: what balanced speed equates to what radius of corner. Walshy does a great vid explaining this! Out on track, most peeps gradually build up speed into corners until they know where this is. Once you know your car and how it responds it becomes quite a rapid process… (hence why the F1 guys can be on 10/10’s within a few laps even on a new circuit to them). Most corners do not have a constant radius! So then you are altering the balance of the car, speed etc.

On the road, you would have to be driving stupid fast in the dry, or just a numpty speed in the wet to ever approach this. The cars are set up to be neutral and safe from the factory and at this limit will lose front end grip and understeer way before you will ever lose the rear end. This is why the ‘skinny’ front tyre size is used. Mods, wider wheels and sticky rubber all allow peeps to attain a different balance depending what they like.

Overall, dont worry or be ‘scared’ about your Exige suddenly swaping ends! As long as you are SMOOTH with power and brake, ie: NO sudden accel or braking on entry/mid/exit of a corner what you are worried about should never happen. (unless your name is Tiff and you do this intentionally to get the back end out! :smiley:) Get out on a Walshy day and you will learn loads about driving in circles at the limit… this can then be used to work the track limits out.

All IMHO!

I (hope) will now find out from those faster and wiser why I am slow! :slight_smile:

Pete.

11

Very well written, Pierre, nice one :slight_smile:

12

yes very well written pete. thanks it was very helpful

13

Why not get a cheap old RWD car and go and have a play on private land to get the feel of the back stepping out ?

14

Listen to you lot being all sesnible!!!

Puffs! :wink: :wink:

hahahaha

15

actually jfk my mum has a mx5 so i might go and get some practice like you said

16

Lol … I smile when I remember in 1983,when,as a 16 year old, me and my next door neighbour used to “borrow” our parents cars…
His fathers was a hillman hunter… mine was a 2.0 Ford Sierra (cutting edge car then ) UWA 247Y …
We had so much fun on car parks and the not yet opened Black Country Spine Road !!!
Would never get away with it nowadays though…

:smiley: :wink: :smiley:

17

sounds like good memories jfk. i have just had another thought about the topic however. The lift off danger as mentioned in this thread, does the traction control being on help or hinder the situation? or does it not make a difference because it is only traction control and not stability control?

18

‘Danger’ is not really the right word here! Lotus’s are pussy cats to drive!

TC is just that… limits the power to the driven wheels if it senses a pre-determined degree of wheel slip. Uses inputs from wheel speed, road speed, throttle position etc etc. A bit like ABS.Stability control adds a yaw rate sensor that then allows both power and individually braked wheels to limit the yaw rate… Still wont save your bacon in any car if you are going too fast for the corner radius however! It cannot see where the trees are!

Have a look on Elise Parts at:

http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/34/272/track-day-drivers-guide/

and

http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/34/248/bending-the-rules/

A good way to spend � 30.00.

Pete. :slight_smile: