Gearboxes

evo_ufo · 13 December 2011 21:33

[quote=Adamantium]GTRs in my experience reach 130 degrees on track after not a lot of use. They fit a forge gearbox cooler to help keep the temps low. The issue is oil breakdown on that car rather than mechanical failure. The oil make is a sticking point as Nissan charge about ï¿½600 for the gearbox oil, but some of the aftermarkets have proven that cheaper oils are as good if not better, but Nissan are very particular in relation to the warranty claims for gearbox failure. Datalogs record peak transmission temp, and if it exceeds 130 they insist on it being changed within a limited time period. It used to be 120, until the GTR owners club campaigned.

Mine has never been above 110, but then mine has never been on track. [/quote]

Didn’t make Spa this year but in 2010 there were a few GTRs. They couldn’t do more than a couple of laps as the gearbox temps were rising to the level that would have invalidated the warranty. So much for a car that can do 7.x mins round the Nurburg Ring. Then it has to park up to cool down or your warranty is knacked.

TarmacTerrorist · 13 December 2011 21:35

[quote=Muu]Scuffers once posted a picture of what looked like a double laminova, one side of engine the other box. Surely thats a neat solution for a gearbox cooler.

Does mean you need a front rad thats man enough. [/quote]

My 2-11 is running 2 laminova’s, one for the engine, one for the gearbox.

seriouslylotus · 14 December 2011 07:31

[quote=TarmacTerrorist][quote=Muu]Scuffers once posted a picture of what looked like a double laminova, one side of engine the other box. Surely thats a neat solution for a gearbox cooler.

Does mean you need a front rad thats man enough. [/quote]

My 2-11 is running 2 laminova’s, one for the engine, one for the gearbox. [/quote]

Gav
Do you have any temps for eng oil and g/box oil please?
Photo of coolers fitted would be nice if possible
Cheers
Dave

TarmacTerrorist · 14 December 2011 07:41

I don’t Dave, sorry.

I know the water temp holds about 98 when giving it large on track, rises to about 105 when you come off track and stationary.

I don’t have the car with me at the minute, soon as I get it back I’ll take a couple of piccies.

661 · 14 December 2011 08:53

henry’s got a laminova for his gearbox with a temperature controlled switch to turn the pump on. It sits over the middle NACA duct. I’m sure he’ll chirp up in a minute.
Fitted by Essex.

ade · 14 December 2011 08:57

I didn’t bother with temperature control, just a an old fashioned switch in the boot, I only use it only the road from the hotel to the track at places like Spa to get heat into the gear oil, then leave it on all day on track.

Exige77 · 14 December 2011 10:16

It’s not a Laminova, just a regular oil cooler with a pump and thermostat.

Not as posh as a Laminova but does the job.

Ex77

frank · 14 December 2011 15:21

Now make some power and then think about how you are gonna remove all those gear teeth from the cooler… :whistle:

Exige77 · 14 December 2011 20:33

300 is enough for me. Got the gearbox and linkage all working well now so don’t want to fiddle.

Bodywork needs some attention. Full of stone chips, more stone chips and even more stone chips

Ex77

Esprit · 14 December 2011 21:55

I’ve got a laminova on my Quaife box. I’ve got that controlled by the ECU with a temperature sensor in the gearbox. I can programme it to come on above a certain temperature and can also programme it to come on intermittently under other conditions (like speed, throttle position etc) as the return line helps to keep the upper gear shaft lubricated under heavy use.

JDS · 14 December 2011 22:05

Our thinking on the laminova cooler was that it won’t overcool the oil, but will stabilise it in line with the coolant temp - about 95 degrees oil - so most kits are supplied to run all the time. The pumps are rated at 10,000 hours or so, bar eating gear teeth, have replaceable brass gears, are almost silent, small and the laminova can be stripped and cleaned to remove your broken gear teeth!

Its even made in the USA Frank! Or at least comes from there anyhows

jamwill79 · 4 January 2012 09:01

[quote=TarmacTerrorist]
As for the sequential geary is developing, word on the grapevine Is that they are great on the Honda cars but don’t work on the Toyota cars so well (I had to laugh when I was told it was to do with drive shaft angles…). How true that all is?? Time will tell on that one I suppose. [/quote]

Well, I’m just having it fitted to my Exige at the moment.

Seen it fitted into a Toyota car too (at Eliseparts), fit’s much easier than in mine, shafts looked dead straight to me.

661 · 4 January 2012 10:59

[quote=jamwill79][quote=TarmacTerrorist]
As for the sequential geary is developing, word on the grapevine Is that they are great on the Honda cars but don’t work on the Toyota cars so well (I had to laugh when I was told it was to do with drive shaft angles…). How true that all is?? Time will tell on that one I suppose. [/quote]

Well, I’m just having it fitted to my Exige at the moment.

Seen it fitted into a Toyota car too (at Eliseparts), fit’s much easier than in mine, shafts looked dead straight to me.

[/quote]
Assuming this is the bespoke sequential on a Honda engine?

jamwill79 · 4 January 2012 18:46

Yes, however in this picture it’s fitted to a toyota engine, which it was also designed for.

trackclub · 6 January 2012 12:23

[quote=TarmacTerrorist][quote=661]

As for the sequential geary is developing, word on the grapevine Is that they are great on the Honda cars but don’t work on the Toyota cars so well (I had to laugh when I was told it was to do with drive shaft angles…). How true that all is?? Time will tell on that one I suppose.
[/quote]

Hi Gav, just come across this, I wont put my money where my mouth is quite yet because we need to run one in a 2-eleven but bot sure where the driveshaft angle issue came from but that is one thing that I know is certainly not the case, the driveshaft angles on the Toyota 7 Speed are about 1 degree ( front to rear ).

I don’t want to do Geary’s selling for him but I’ve seen the process that has been gone thorugh on this and it’s very much like the ECU where Geary just will not release it until he is absolutely 100%. We’ve had cars running around on the ECU for ages but he’s now refining the software and making it a licence free version to make it spot on.

Back to the gearbox, to give you some background on this;

I have known the company making them for us for 14 years or so and they have been making Suburu and Evo sequential boxes for about 7 years, they also maintained and developed several of Colin McRaeï¿½s cars and designed and built a 4wd system for the car he was about to launch before he died in the Helicopter crash. We bought the motorsport division of HKS last year in the UK and those guys know the calibre of the people building the boxes very well.

Roger Clarke Motorsport use them for all their gearbox development (they have them in their 800 bhp Time attack wining cars) and they have made boxes for 2000bhp drag cars.

Apart from the castings and surface treatments everything is made in house to extremely high standards and from the same materials X-Trac, Hewland, Sadev etc use.

The gearbox itself has been in development for about 18 months now and track tested in 2 x 400 bhp Honda race cars in Australia over the last 12-14 months.

The reason it has taken so long is that itï¿½s been designed from scratch specifically for the Lotus platforms (and the Loti with Honda engines) itï¿½s not a converted front wheel drive gearbox thatï¿½s been ï¿½adaptedï¿½ to fit.

Although I do appreciate that the big guys have the names that does not mean to say theirs are better as each have their own drawbacks. I’m a big fan of Hewland stuff, we run several and we rebuild them in house, I’m not a fan of the Sadev stuff as it can’t handle big torque and sometimes getting parts is tricky.

Mostly they all have relatively low torque ratings as they do not run a centre bearing and running cables on a Sadev are a nightmare, as are the driveshafts, also none I know of do 7 speed .

Realistically Geary could have released the gearbox several months ago if he were not being so fussy and that’s why we didn’t run one at the back end of the season.

I raised the issue of spares with him whilst we were talking last year, he has 15 boxes in build with 5 sets of spares that will be ready at the same time, he’s also making sure he as 2 complete boxes on the shelf at all times for emergency use.

I appreciate no one can predict in 5 years time what the call will be for these in the Lotus fraternity but one thing to bear in mind that these will also fit any K20 Honda and any 2ZZ Toyota as the gearboxes are no larger than the OEM.

As someone said in this thread ï¿½time will tell ï¿½ but I’ve seen them running in two of the most powerful Elise race cars available, running slicks in 40 + degree ambient temps on some of the worst/bumpiest tracks in the world for several thousand miles each.

There have been a few issues but to be fair all of them have been human error or minor and nothing like what I’ve seen with the Quaiffe stuff that the like of Simon and Tom were having issues with. Geary has evolved the gearbox since the 1st one 18 months ago with 20 or 30 detail changes, little things like making the oil drain easier etc so I think he’s pretty much there with it.

I hope it proves to be as good as I think it could be just based on the amount of effort, time and money that has gone into it.

Stephen

[email protected]
www.track-group.com \ www.track-club.com

SeanB · 6 January 2012 12:54

That all sounds really promising!!