Sadly true. If two policemen/women/persons* both state in Court you were doing something, then whatever the reality might be, a conviction will happen, no question.
(*delete as appropriate)
I only learned this after taking an alleged mobile-phone-whilst-driving case to Court. Even though I produced evidence that there was no way I was using it when I drove past the gateway they were parked in, the magistrates decided I was guilty because both coppers said they’d seen me.
The truth was I had only used it later when legally parked, engine off and handbrake on, which was when they pulled up behind me and made the accusation. To have been using the phone where they alleged I would have had to drive through a busy town centre in rush hour, negotiate two pedestrian crossings, go round a roundabout, find a parking space, pull in, park, etc, etc. at an average of nearly 60mph in my trusty Renault Clio…
The police also lied in court about where I was parked and the Magistrates accepted their word, deciding that “…we think there is enough leeway that you might have been using the phone, so we find you guilty …”.
I have supported a friend at court were I know for FACT both police officers were lying to cover themselves as their statements were proven to be inaccurate by the defense lawyer.
My hearing was scheduled for yesterday Thurs 7th Nov. I was informed today that it has been adjourned until 28th Nov
Evidently the half-wit-hair-trigger-we’re-too-busy-to-read-the-facts-correctly-begowned-threesome think that the 3 points I have dating back to 9th Oct 2010 are still valid (in addition to the 3 points that are valid from April 2012), so blow me down they want me to appear and explain why it is they should find reason not to ban me
Errrr…try reading the facts dimwits? They clearly didn’t even bother to consider my early guilty plea, the circumstances I carefully explained, and the supporting letter from my employer.
Nor do they consider my record of accident free driving over the last 20 years and HALF A MILLION MILES means nothing.
FFS. Never trust anyone in a gown Fookwits
I can almost hear the gallows being nailed together now
Had the travesty this year of court hearing as the victim of a fraudulent whiplash claim.
I has been driving along a narrow road behind a tractor when a car overtook the line of traffic, nearly hitting my car in the process. A bit further up the road the idiot had parked, so I stopped and spoke to the driver.
Despite two engineers reports confirming there had been no impact/contact - one report having being previously decreed ‘expert evidence’ by another judge and the claimant even admitting in court that she “…thought she heard a bang…” couldn’t be sure what happened - the judge decided that:
It was perfectly possible for two similar-size cars to collide, sideways(?), and for one to sustain absolutely no damage
The expert evidence was wrong
The witness statements were wrong
I was lying
I don’t know how to drive
One driver can suffer terrible whiplash whilst the three people (inc. one child) in the other car have no problems
Claimant was awarded £3000 + costs, with appeal refused by the judge, who went right through the whole charade addressing me by the wrong name.
The comment from my lawyer summed it up, I think: “The judge just felt sorry for her and was looking for a way to give her some money…”.
I did jury duty a while back and the lawyers made fools of (senior) plod, reduced him to the point where we couldn’t even be sure how he go into the house which totally discredited any of the more subtle points he made.
That is truly unbelievable if we’re not for the fact it’s true .
There are those that will blindly support our BIB, who do have a difficult job to do, but from personal experience I would not trust them as far as I could throw them.
Am I missing something or have you not said what you actually did/are accused of?
Everyone is having a pop at the dibble but if you were doing 154mph through a school playground eating a sandwich your fair game as far as I am concerned. Unless of course it was a foot long steak and cheese and you were also talking on your phone whilst reading the A-Z, then in which case respect.
I’m sure Tim will be happy to relate all but from what he’s told me he was unfairly targeted, late at night on a clear road, and only doing what any one of us would have reasonably done.
The subsequent court procedure he relates is truly shocking.
Typical of the way this country is run these days.No one listens/ reads what’s put in front of them but rushes to judgment.
As for the police, well I’ve seen them at close quarters as a journo for more than 30 years and I wouldn’t trust any one of them. And I’ve had personal experience of how they deal with the public (me).
And the way that magistrates and the judiciary unfailingly accept everything they say as truth is truly shocking. Take Hillsborough, for example.
Wow. There’s some sweeping statements going on in here tonight!! Sad fact is nobody is perfect, so percentages say that there are some not so good Police out there. Its a damn shame that the press like to report on all the few bad pennies that turn up, rather than the vast majority that get on with doing the job right.
If in doubt I suggest reading about Postmans Park in London. Or count the names on the Police memorial on The Mall.
There are rules, if you break them be prepared to pay the consequences, doing more than 70mph on a motorway, something we all do, is illegal in this country. If you are unlucky enough to be caught you need to pay the piper I’m afraid.
I do have a lot of sympathy, because if it is correct he was doing no worse than a normal competent road user normally does, then why single him out? Usually just bad luck?
I have my own story of magistrates and police and how I fell victim, but I will not bore you with that.
Just for clarity, although the copper considered himself a very fair individual he chose not to consider the mitigating circumstance.
The summons clearly says an early guilty plea is cosidered favourably.
I have pleaded guilty by post and explaind the events plus what is on my license, and my good driving record - half a million miles with no accident.
It is evident none of this is considered. Also the busy magistrates do not appear to understand the points system and think I still have 6 active.
If you come forward and accept a responsible job that requires a degree of inteligence and balance then you must accept that all facts need to be clearly understood before proceeding I.e. treat all as you would wish to be treated yourself.
So what were you actually doing at the time?? I’m still confused.
What were the mitigating circumstances? Bear in mind that every traffic pol has probably heard every excuse in the book more than once.
It sounds like you have been stopped for doing something that you shouldn’t have been doing and let off. Then later on sounds like you have been stopped again for doing something that you shouldn’t have been doing, already have 3 points, plus 3 more showing but not counting. But then frustrated that your driving record hasn’t been taken into account and sent on your way scott free? To me it sounds like your driving record has been taken into account, 6 points in the last 4-5 years, and they have proceeded from there.
Just for clarity, do you think that the police officer that stops you makes the decision on what to do about fining/summons/etc once it gets to the point of actually reporting the offence to the CPS?
No, I was caught by radar gun doing 55. This was between a junction I joined the road from and a roundabout ahead that has a 4 way approach/exit. There are two lanes in the junction, joining a 4 lane main road. Another car was in the lane I needed to be in, I used the other lane. traffic lights were red. Lights change & we both pull out. I gave the throttle a short prod to manoeuvre ahead of the other car, and then safely move across into the lane I needed to exit the roundabout. In doing so I hit 55.
The police pulled out from their parked position and followed me for approx. 2 miles of 30mph road during which I never exceeded 30. 11.30pm at night, clear roads, no traffic. Lots of places to pull me over. I challenged why they waited so long, they said they waited for a safe place to pull me.
At the time of the offence I had 6 points ‘active’. 3 of these expired early Oct. Even plod looked at my license and said “you should be ok”. I took this to mean I would not be getting a summons so soon as to attract a ban under totting up.
No, I know the process it has to go through. What frustrates me is the too-busy-to-understand-the-facts-and-act-accordingly-threesome-magistrates, who it would seem are only too eager to issue a ban.
I have pleaded guilty & expect 6 points and a fine, nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to dust down your pulpit and appoint a joiner to build the gallows
As you say not the best move but nothing most of us would not have done anyway, to me these circumstances only do one thing hate the Police.
To me a stern telling off by the copper at the side of the road would go a lot further and make you think twice for quite a while, this treatment though just makes you think w@nkers instead.
Last time I was stopped (90 in a 70) he shouted at me for twenty minutes gave me a right dressing down, I felt really bad and I’m sure I would have been more sensible in the future, then he produces the fixed penalty fine and says this should be a lesson to me. I left feeling he had finally achieved nothing. All this happen at 11pm at night in good weather with no cars on the road.
He went from hero to zero in my mind in about 1 minute flat
I hope they see sense when you turn up for your day in court, I would however hire a lawyer to help you
Not saying it’s right or wrong at all and have been there and done much the samew. However we all take the risk and take the bollocking and points if it happens. Normal procedure is to follow while pnc check comes back, then pull over when they know who shoud be driving.
Weirdly got pulled Friday night after leaving a pub at 11pm. Drove into town and dropped two mates off and almost on drive when lights came on. Although speeding slightly, they ignored that and just wanted to make sure car wasnt stolen and hadn’t been drinking. 2 mins and check of breath and back on the way. Maybe it would have been same as your situation if almost twice speed limit.
As for police being heavy handed, maybe they get fed up pulling bits of people out of fields after crashes where no one else was involved and it was late at night??
