Well worth a read and big up to Mr Stoddart:
http://www.minardi.it/press/dettaglio.asp?IDComunicato=1875&LN=UK&IDGara=&IDComunicatiTipo=
very interesting.
Here’s what Minardi had to say during the race to Dutch broadcaster SBS. http://members.chello.nl/e.beurskens/Stoddart_Interview.mp3
Not as eloquent as Randy’s link perhaps, but he certainly gets his point across!!!
He’s a top guy! Call’s a spade a spade and has my respect for that!
Interesting comments from Mosley…
On Holiday so I missed this ‘race’… interesting to wonder what all the FIA politics are that Minardi mention ??
BUt anyway, I also don’t think you could simply stick a chicane onto the cct at the last minute in this way… who knows what effect that may have had on everything. A drive thru’ the pits every ten laps might have been interesting tho’ but again this would bringsome other safety issues perhaps?
All in all a major cock-up… no doubt about it.
I dunno, I think the pitlane idea would have worked. The pitlane is a known dangerous place and has plenty of rules to control that. It would only have been pulling out after refills with so many cars in the pits that would have been tricky.
I’m sure the teams didn’t go for it because the heat cycles the engine would have gone through would cause problems, especailly with the two race rule.
Ian
True IDG…
But the point is that you cannae really go slapping any untested solution to a major cock-up like this into something like an F1 GP… so in that respect I have some compassion for Max Mosleys position… and Michelin have been reaping the rewards of their tyre technology and their approach to wear etc all season so anything that cut them slack would have been unfair to Bridgestone… very very tricky situation if you ask me to solve at the 11th hour… in the old days they probably would have let the boys get on with it but not today and especially NOT in good ol’ US of A … imagine the circus if their had been a serious safety incident. The sad fact is that sport has gone out of sport… and not just in F1… everyone is looking at the pennies…
i agree with rox its not sport anymore they should have just raced they get paid enough!
ask most race fans if they would have been willing to step into the shoes of any of the drivers that didnt want to go out and you would of had a stampede
now that would be worth watching
Did you know there was a public survey in May by the FIA for the public to give their input on where F1 should be going?
I didn’t until I read it today in Racecar Engineering.
Check out: http://www.fia.com/index_1024.html
But the point is that you cannae really go slapping any untested solution to a major cock-up like this into something like an F1 GP…
Sorry Roxx, but I disagree… There is absolutely no reason why they could not have installed a chicane and allowed another practice session and given F1 some hope of getting a foothold in the USA.
There are plenty of precedents for temporary chicanes in F1 particularly in the post Imola ‘94 Senna/Ratzenberger disaster. Admittedly these were often added in the early stages of the weekend and the cars electronics were a lot simpler then; nowadays the cars’ electronics set up is mapped to the circuit, of course. So, the extra practice would have been essential but it could have been done if Ferrari weren’t so far up Bernie’s ar*e.(or is it the other way round?)
Any number of race organisers at all levels of the sport have introduced changes to the circuit or regulations for an event on the day of competition in the interests of safety - indeed it is their duty to do so - and the F1 gang COULD have run this race with a full (joke - 20 cars!)field if they had the interests of the SPORT or the FAN in their minds. But Bernie is a pik and even minutes before the start seemed to have his own head up his a*se when he said there was no problem and there would be a race.
The FIA have ruined every national formula that they have hi-jacked (GTs, touring cars etc ) and turned into a “world” series.
The F1 road show will NEVER make it into the US now and the sooner there is a rival series for the major manufacturers to get into the better…
All IMHO, of course.
mmm…
Having just read thru’ the FIA website and looked at the published correspondance etc… FWIW, I now wholly agree with them and now think that the Michelin Runners were wholly to blame for the fiasco… Further I think the current media coverage even from people i otherwise think are excellent is terrible – everyone is saying they should have built a chicane… Bollox !!
To put it another way, if it had been the 3 Bridgestone cars that had the problem do you think McLaren, Williams, BAR etc… would have said okay then lets put a chicane in to help them out… yeh right… not that this is what should have been done anyway, but the Michelin shod teams perhaps tried to use their quantity to their advantage.
I think the Michelin runners should have used one of the solutions mentioned. 1. Run slower in turn 12/13 2. Come in and change the left rear at advised intervals, 3. Running another tyre (academic as Michelin couldn’t provide an alternative flown from France, or at least the alternative was just as bad ). They also could have legally used the pit-lane on every lap, thus missing turn 13 altogether
I particularly think this Max Mosely Q&A session is excellent.
But the point is that you cannae really go slapping any untested solution to a major cock-up like this into something like an F1 GP…
Sorry Roxx, but I disagree… There is absolutely no reason why they could not have installed a chicane and allowed another practice session and given F1 some hope of getting a foothold in the USA.
…
All IMHO, of course.
83man
No problems with disagreements at all and especially from one such as your good self, however… I can’t believe you don’t agree that, in echo of, the FIA’s position the introduction of a chicane as proposed would:
a) break the FIA’s own rules - they would be remiss and open themselves up to trouble if it subsequently went wrong ESPECIALLY in the USA.
b) introduced so late in the day would probably have brought some other side effect safety issues - i’m sure you can think of many - and in any case Michelin, who suggested this, weren’t clear themselves as to whether a chicane would ACTUALLY fix the issue - they didn’t clearly understand the root cause, so couldn’t explain how a chicanes gonna fix it ?
c) Why compromise the competitativeness of the Bridgestone runners unfairly because the Michelin runners didnae bring the correct equipment ??.. dusnae matter what your personal allegiances are but lets use Max Mosely illustrative example of 4 manufacturers engines and 7 independants engines arriving at Indy to find that turn 13 gives oil surge issues arising from an incorrect design in the 7 independants, they all start blowing up n stuff during practice and qualie… would the 5 manufacturers introduce a chicane to help the independants out ?? would they hell as like… the independants would have to drive slower round the fast turn…
The precedents you talk of were all introduced in time for proper evaluation and were in response to potential dangers relating to the design of the circuit - this was NOT the case two weeks ago in USA - which was because the majority supplier of a component couldn’t deliver!! and actually didn’t comply with current well understood rule of bringing a back-up that was safe in all circumstances !!, so not an appropriate justification for these precedents to be used in this case . 6 Bridgestone shod cars did 73 laps this year and the turn is nearly 100 years old… no issues
The more I have read, the more i have wondered why the Michelin teams didn’t use the pit-lane every lap thus missing turn 13 – even coming 7th and 8th would yield championship points and that’s before counting possible race incident or reliability issues with the Bridgestone cars… AND… all 14 Michelin cars would still have been on the same footing !!! If its entertainment you want that would surely have presented it and also have been entirely within the rules…
I know you feel the FIA have buggered up the national motorsports scene and they prolly have but in this case I think they have acted 100% correctly - its the self-serving teams and Michelin who cocked this up !!!
Roxx,
I fully understand and accept all of the points that you, Max and Michelin have made but that doesn’t alter the fact that, with Michelin’s help, FOM have managed to piledrive the sport (F1 that is - not really a sport of course) even further down the route of self destruction. The Bridgestone runners didn’t need to be ASKED - they shouold have been TOLD by the governing body exactly how they were going to get themselves out of this mess but that would have upset the Michael and Barry show… This is supposed to be the pinnacle of world motor sport but it is in fact a complete shambles where half of the so called world’s best can’t even get a car off the line. It’s pathetic.
What would have happened if the tyres had held out in qualifying - would blissful ignorance have meant a full starting grid. There are all sorts of reasons why motor sport is dangerous and it is extremely pretentious to mangle a race because one of them is highlighted. The fact is that any one of the six that did compete could have had a tyre delaminate at any time. It’s a high risk activity.
The debacle was avoidable…chicanes, tyre changes whatever they decide but they should have worked it out and TOLD the teams what the new rules of the day were. I agree with Paul Stoddard.
Oh come Rox, it was everybodies fault. They were all too arogant to consider a compromise. But I guess they’re the kinda people that make good racing drivers/team managers.
The more I have read, the more i have wondered why the Michelin teams didn’t use the pit-lane every lap thus missing turn 13
I suspect that had something to do with knackering the engine, which wouldn’t be designed to be regularly overheated in that fashion. Especially with the penaltries which come with changes engines which are meant to last two races.
Ian
Rox - I’m gobsmacked that you can agree with the way the FIA have handled this. Max Mosley should be shot and the FIA disbanded.
I actually think that if Bernie still had the stranglehold on the sport which he had a few years ago a chicane would have been put in place. He clearly looked frustrated at the situation but as he can no longer bully Max he had his hands tied.
The more I have read, the more i have wondered why the Michelin teams didn’t use the pit-lane every lap thus missing turn 13 – even coming 7th and 8th would yield championship points and that’s before counting possible race incident or reliability issues with the Bridgestone cars… AND… all 14 Michelin cars would still have been on the same footing !!!
I don’t see how this could be safer than installing a chicane and letting everyone practice with it in place.
Also, from my earlier post it sounds like I am anti-Ferrari. I’m not, really, as I think they and MS have been the best in the business and deserve all their success but I object to their ‘special’ treatment by Bernie and co. who always seem to make sure that the outcome of any rule change or other decision suits them well…including financial inducements not to go with the breakaway group.
Max and Co are making statements to justify their decisions AFTER the event. For every argument thay put forward there is an equally strong counter argument. Max is a slick lawyer, I’ll give him that…
I think all parties acted in their own best interests and not for the sport.
The upshot in simple terms is that the Michelin shod cars wanted to race with a fighting chance of winning while Mosely didnt think they deserved that opportunity. Ferrari sat silently waiting for the decision to go their way and ready to pounce on Mosely had he allowed the chicane, citing that they were being penalised and that they deserved an advantage.
In sort there are two positions d
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You believe a sponsor is key to the sport of the event and that that Michelin lost the race for the teams by bringing the wrong tyres and bugger the spectator event. tough [censored].
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You believe something should have been saved for the sport and the spectators and the sponsors and the TV viewers. The biger picture really.
All the “compromises” were unnaceptable by the teams as they didnt leave them a competitive chance of winning, which Mosely didnt think they deserved anyway.
Moselys proposals would have been just as big a farce as what happened, just more of an insult.
I actually think that if Bernie still had the stranglehold on the sport which he had a few years ago a chicane would have been put in place. He clearly looked frustrated at the situation but as he can no longer bully Max he had his hands tied.
Well he would look a bit stressed wouldn’t you if you felt the pinch on yer squidillions and the impact in yer coffers for the future… He was interested in the commercial impact, FIA were interested in the ‘sporting-rules’ impact and in the potential safety implications of an untested chicane.
Bottom line for me - Michelins cheat never worked this time… they should have brought the correct contsruction of tyre…
The upshot in simple terms is that the Michelin shod cars wanted to race with a fighting chance of winning while Mosely didnt think they deserved that opportunity.
This wasn’t the case at all, the Michelin guys were willing to concede points, start from the back, whatever it took for a race to take place.
Bottom line for me - Michelins cheat never worked this time… they should have brought the correct contsruction of tyre…
Its not fair to accuse them of that. If the issue was down to a compound which was to soft then I would agree but this was a construction issue and gave no performance advantage. They had no experience of the diamond surface and misjudged the implications. Then second tyre that people go on about is the same thing, it will have a common construction with a hard, durable compound to last well.