Clutch knackered?

The Oily Bits S1 Specific Topics
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Hi guys,Since the track day at Donington last week, the bite point on my clutch pedal is quite low down. I don’t think I was really abusing it, but maybe I’ve worn it out/overheated it.What do you reckon? Do I need a new clutch, or could it be something else?

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If the clutch plate was wearing out I would expect the bite point to be higher not lower.Thinking about hydraulic clutch’s I would look more close at a hydraulic leak of some kind HTH

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Thanks for the reply Miniman. I’ve now had the hydraulics bled to get rid of any air locks. The fluid isn’t dropping in the reservoir, so it doesn’t seem to be a leak.The pedal feels better now, but the bite point seems to get lower when it warms up. I’ve no idea what that means.

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Brendan, just a stab in the dark, but could it be the same problem I had, but a smaller leak? i.e., flare on the end of the pipe into the clutch slave has a hairline fracture. This would give you a bad pedal which would be rectified temporarily by bleeding… worth a look.

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Brendan,my stock clutch was perfect in that regards, but it slipped when abusing it (I burnt it 3 times), so I had it changed by the AP racing one (advertised as one that would not slip).The trade off is what you describe, now I have a much lower clutch engaging point. Fluid seems ok, no air (actually that part of the clutch system was never touched) so it must only be down to the mechanical configuration of the clutch itself.Since you did not change it and it happened after a track session, could it be that some of the radial springs were slightly bent? and therefore the mech. config. has been changed?Just a thought but, if you don’t find anything wrong with the hydraulic part, it might be worth to have it opened and see what they find. (but it costs)The alternative is to just hammer it until it breaks…Cheers,Uldis

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quote:Originally posted by Uldis: so I had it changed by the AP racing one The AP clutch kit as advertised on http://www.eliseparts.com is exactly the same one as fitted to the Exige, i was going to buy one from SteveB but when he bought it around it was the same as i already had !!

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Well, it looked exactly the same, but it had different part numbers.Still, I’m going to try and find out, because by the way, even if the original one was not up to specs (slipping), when I saw it out, it was absolutely like new (maybe just a tad lighter color than the one I put).Anybody can confirm Phil’s point?Uldis

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I’ll check the clutch pipe again myself. I guess it could be that.Otherwise, I guess there’s not much I can do except put up with it for a while and see if it gets any worse. I’m not paying to get the clutch checked, that would cost far too much.I’d be very interested to find out if Phil’s right about the uprated clutch being fitted as standard.

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Well, it got worse. Now I can tell what’s actually going on. The pedal is actually dropping further down. It seems to be a problem with either the master or slave cylinder. Hydraulic fluid must be getting past the seals on the pistons. When the pedal has dropped so far that I can’t disengage the clutch fully, I can just pull the pedal back up and it starts working properly again.

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Uldis,SteveB would confirm it, mine is still apart if you need the numbers.

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Borg & Beck made, stamped with AP and number UQB10009 printed on the plate.

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Phil, Steve,let’s see if this all makes sense.The AP “racing” clutch that I bought from Elise parts has this written on it:CP2000-14 (looks like the main number)It also has stamped:CP5352-10 (DP215s/CORG-25,2x24-7,11)CP5905-1 (CVASSY-215ORGx1-HiR-ND)The one that was installed in the car has stamped:UQB10009 d215Borg & Beck England 53131On the flywheel side; 51580And disc + pressure plate:LCKF13010A URB10009 d 215 121F105 and stamped: LC 030R 003BSo, althought they look the same (slightly different color) the numbers are different. Would this prove that they are indeed different?UldisBTW, my pedal is not going down, it’s solidly the same, just lower than the previous clutch.

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What can be different on a "uprated clutch " ? Consider two parts, cover and plate.The plate can be from a harder wearing material. The plate can be with a harder “spring” to give more force to the harder wearing plate. Usually this will give a heavier feel to the clutch action.To my mind this is like taking a standard clutch and putting in a “rally” clutch - still organic type material.If you want to go past this point then you are into a cerametallic material clutch and much heavier duty cover.So the question is was the Exige fitted with an uprated organic clutch ( over the std Elise ) as standard - I would hope so … !!For me the only next option then is a cerametallic plate or sintered plate - which I consider is the “race” plate.Problem is you then transmit the force somewhere else ( differential, drive shafts ) and something else breaks rather than slips !! so then you want a LSD diff and stronger shafts and uprated cv’s and, and …

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Uldis2000-14 is an uprated Elise plate from AP -and 215 is the diameter.So question is for both the B&B and AP:Plate material ?Cover pressure ?I will continue to look into it, although I very much suspect the two are the same but from different manufacturers only …

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Maximum torque capacity of the AP 2000-14 is 240NM or 177 ft/lbs.

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I have just received an E-mail from Dave Massey at Lotus, "the Exige was built with a standard clutch as fitted to the Elise."So although they looked the same they are not.Apologies for any confusion caused !Hat, coat, exits door with head downPhil

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It’s good to have that cleared up. In a way, I’m glad the Exige’s clutch is the standard Elise part. The standard clutch is really not up to the job. Hence the fact that the car is incapable of spinning it’s wheels on a dry road in a straight line. The clutch slips instead.Has anybody got experience of the uprated clutch with standard A039s? Can you spin the wheels? Not that I want to, but when I do an “emergency start” [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif[/image] I’d rather get a little wheel spin than burn thee clutch.

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I’ll be fitting the AP disc this winter along with the Ultra Close gears.I’ll have a report by the end of April - I hope!!

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You do mean the “AP Racing” clutch [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif[/image]

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Brendan,that’s exactly the reason why I changed my clutch for the AP racing one.But siince I changed it, it has been raining, so I cannot really tell you yet.I’ll tell you when I find a dry day to try. [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Uldis