Chargecooler?

[quote=ade][quote=OrangeD]This is a GT3 engine bay what C/C set up is this?

:smiley: [/quote]

Rubbish :wink:

Those canister style cores are cheap and not very efficient in comparison with the Proalloy and (I’m sure) the MMG design.

[/quote]

Well, thats one of three of Lotus’s own GT3 racecars built by themselves, and the same cores used on the world’s fastest production car, Ultimate Aero, and the most popular off the shelf cores you see on 1000bhp + applications in drag racing. Do you see these other brands of CC’s you mention hold such accolades? :wink:

Tried to get a core similar to that (might even be the same) gave up with the company after 5 of my emails were not replied to, went to Proalloy and the rest is history :slight_smile:

I would reckon we didnt receive them if you sent them 5 times, or went to Junk for some reason. No reason not to reply to an enquiry, if sent 5 times. Any problems with your core so far?

Read my other thread, my CC is about 3 years old as well :wink:

Ah yes, just read. This is why our cores have no welds. Good of them to replace it for free though.

It was the outside can that the weld failed and I can see welds on yours as well :wink:

Our welds only hold the end tanks to the core, not where the water passes. Our cores have no welds or braising internally, hence why they are used in high boost drag applications.

Funny if those are the best cores how is it my charge temps were 17*F lower than the GT3 Lotus http://www.bellintercoolers.com/ …???

And in my current configuration using a Spearco intercooler core I would give you the cold shoulder… :smiley::D:D

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/86
Now I know for fact these guys produce cores for cars making far more than 2000 hp… :crazy:

[quote=frank]Funny if those are the best cores how is it my charge temps were 17*F lower than the GT3 Lotus http://www.bellintercoolers.com/ …???

And in my current configuration using a Spearco intercooler core I would give you the cold shoulder… :smiley::D:D

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/86
Now I know for fact these guys produce cores for cars making far more than 2000 hp… :crazy: [/quote]

(1) Due to a million variables, one of them simply being you don’t have the exact same vehicle. Common sense doesnt’ compare two vehicles unless they are identical in every way, in the exact same environment, hence impossible, hence you need to compare the different product on the same vehicle, obviously - in the same test condtions. Saying your car has ‘17 degrees lower charge temps’ than another is meaningless.

Im sure that company can do a core for more than 2000bhp, or two cores for 2000bhp, or considering the fact their core for 1800hp is 12" x 13" x 6" - it is gigantic in comparison, in fact twice the size of our largest core. If our core was that large who knows the potential.

Once again, you can’t compare apples to oranges, abeit gigantic apples :wink:

End of the day, in this extreme end of racing, would you trust a one piece extruded aluminium core with no weak points, or simply a very large traditional intercooler bar/fin/plate type core with multiple joints when you are in the leagues of 50 psi+ applications.

[quote=chargecooler][quote=frank]Funny if those are the best cores how is it my charge temps were 17*F lower than the GT3 Lotus http://www.bellintercoolers.com/ …???

And in my current configuration using a Spearco intercooler core I would give you the cold shoulder… :smiley::D:D

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/86
Now I know for fact these guys produce cores for cars making far more than 2000 hp… :crazy: [/quote]

(1) Due to a million variables, one of them simply being you don’t have the exact same vehicle. Common sense doesnt’ compare two vehicles unless they are identical in every way, in the exact same environment, hence impossible, hence you need to compare the different product on the same vehicle, obviously - in the same test condtions. Saying your car has ‘17 degrees lower charge temps’ than another is meaningless.

Im sure that company can do a core for more than 2000bhp, or two cores for 2000bhp, or considering the fact their core for 1800hp rated core is 12" x 13" x 6" - it is gigantic in comparison, in fact twice the size of our largest core. If our core was that large who knows the potential.

Once again, you can’t compare apples to oranges, abeit gigantic apples :wink:

End of the day, in this extreme end of racing, would you trust a one piece extruded aluminium core with no weak points, or simply a very large traditional intercooler bar/fin/plate type core with multiple joints when you are in the leagues of 50 psi+ applications. [/quote]

Same engine same loads plus higher ambient temps along with a less efficent SC not the racer special Lotus were using on the GT3 and I was still cooler than the GT3 with out an AC condensor in the way…320 rwhp…Apples to Apples…
Sure you can play all the BS crap sayin the driver just ate dinner and was heavier or there was a head wind but the readings were taken by a Lotus engine calibrator in car at speed not BS just fact… :smiley:
What weak points are you talkin about I run 37psi. and have never had an issue, I’ve run 45 psi. in other cars and never had an issue ?..I guess it depends who’s doing the weldin…

There is no other Lotus that comes close to the extreme setup of my car and I run it in the freakin Mojave desert…

I’d trust a more efficent cooler over a less efficent setup any day… Surface area and efficent fin design for heat transfer is the only way…

I’m not sellin anything, I just know to buy the best if it’s going on to my car…

[quote=frank][quote=chargecooler][quote=frank]Funny if those are the best cores how is it my charge temps were 17*F lower than the GT3 Lotus http://www.bellintercoolers.com/ …???

And in my current configuration using a Spearco intercooler core I would give you the cold shoulder… :smiley::D:D

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/86
Now I know for fact these guys produce cores for cars making far more than 2000 hp… :crazy: [/quote]

(1) Due to a million variables, one of them simply being you don’t have the exact same vehicle. Common sense doesnt’ compare two vehicles unless they are identical in every way, in the exact same environment, hence impossible, hence you need to compare the different product on the same vehicle, obviously - in the same test condtions. Saying your car has ‘17 degrees lower charge temps’ than another is meaningless.

Im sure that company can do a core for more than 2000bhp, or two cores for 2000bhp, or considering the fact their core for 1800hp rated core is 12" x 13" x 6" - it is gigantic in comparison, in fact twice the size of our largest core. If our core was that large who knows the potential.

Once again, you can’t compare apples to oranges, abeit gigantic apples :wink:

End of the day, in this extreme end of racing, would you trust a one piece extruded aluminium core with no weak points, or simply a very large traditional intercooler bar/fin/plate type core with multiple joints when you are in the leagues of 50 psi+ applications. [/quote]

Same engine same loads plus higher ambient temps along with a less efficent SC not the racer special Lotus were using on the GT3 and I was still cooler than the GT3 with out an AC condensor in the way…320 rwhp…Apples to Apples…
Sure you can play all the BS crap sayin the driver just ate dinner and was heavier or there was a head wind but the readings were taken by a Lotus engine calibrator in car at speed not BS just fact… :smiley:
What weak points are you talkin about I run 37psi. and have never had an issue, I’ve run 45 psi. in other cars and never had an issue ?..I guess it depends who’s doing the weldin…

There is no other Lotus that comes close to the extreme setup of my car and I run it in the freakin Mojave desert…

I’d trust a more efficent cooler over a less efficent setup any day… Surface area and efficent fin design for heat transfer is the only way…

I’m not sellin anything, I just know to buy the best if it’s going on to my car… [/quote]

Sorry, you can’t compare data, if it isnt the same! A car could run lower charge temps that yours, but running a different blower, rad, CC, boost, with all different settings, placements, water volumes, intake position. How about it simply runs lower boost?

Im not disputing someone can have higher, or lower, or the same chargetemps. But I couldnt take any data from it if it isnt like for like, obviously.

I can have two identical cars, running two of my identical kits, but with the rads or cores in different positions, and have different charge temps. So what data can you deduce from that, is the kit at fault, or the environment?

You can have 17 degrees lower temps, but your core could be twice the size - or your rad, or inlet simply could be in a better position, or simply as theirs is a true race car, with restrictions for FIA GT3 Specs, there are compromises made, but the point is, who knows? Im not making excuses here, its just showing the point that a comparison between two vehicles which are far from identical is meaningless.

Fine I’ll give you that but racers are cheaters and in the end the Sparco/Bell core design is more effiecent, add a proper sized heat exchanger and pump and it will still out perform the lowly barrel…if not I’d have a barrel on my car…

Fine I’ll give you that

Chargecooler i would be happy if i was you as you have got Frank to agree with you on one of your points :smiley:

It would be nice to see an industry standard test for intercooler cores so they could be rated so we would know what we were buying.

Mike

Well this is the thing, even that is meaningless, as a chargecooler system is the sum of its parts, not the core on its own. The chargecooling world has moved on from using intercooler cores in welded boxes. Just because people are still using them and getting good results doesnt mean they are better - people in drag racing are still using carburettors - doesn’t mean it is better than fuel injection…

Much with Frank saying his car was 17 degrees lower than our core - but thats only one of our cores. If Lotus had used a smaller one of our cores, the chargetemps would be higher - if they used one of our larger cores, it would be lower. We don’t just produce one barrel. Lotus picked a middle range unit.


One question I would like to ask Frank, is how does he know his car was 17 degrees lower?

easy one…The chap that tuned the GT3 was sitin in my car with his laptop pluged in to monitor my car… do you think I make this stuff up…
I now run a much larger core with four heat exchangers…you can never be too cool… :smiley:

So what are your intake temps at 15psi 70*f ambient before and after chargecooler in your exige ?

[quote=frank]easy one…The chap that tuned the GT3 was sitin in my car with his laptop pluged in to monitor my car… do you think I make this stuff up…
I now run a much larger core with four heat exchangers…you can never be too cool… :smiley:

So what are your intake temps at 15psi 70*f ambient before and after chargecooler in your exige ? [/quote]

Which GT3 Frank? I supplied 3 cores to Lotus when the GT3 was just a pre-production concept car for racing, and were fitted to three of their own racing prototypes…So are you saying Lotus tuned your car?

2007-8-9 GT3…I never said that, I said he was comparing data… I tune my own car…

So what are your temps ?

Frank, a 2007, 2008, or 2009 GT3 doesnt have our chargecoolers in. Only 3 test vehicles from 2006/2007 have them.

Well they only ran barrel coolers after they ditched the A/A, so you must have had competition I guess…my buddy is runin one down under in his GT3 now turboed…

So what are your temps ?

I don’t have an Exige with a CC system fitted, so its would be irrelevant, as does most of this discussion it seems! :wink: