[quote=frank]You could kill two birds with this setup from BOE… 
http://www.monkeytuner.com/forum/download/file.php?id=5796&mode=view
Talk about not having a clue… 
[/quote]
Now thats just not fair…fancy showing boothy’s interwarmer george foreman combi grill setup
One technical question tho…can you cook a good 14oz ribeye at idle or do you need rev the enigne to get the temps up?.. as for marinade…don’t get him started, took him weeks to get the sauce off his manifold ! 
I would mount them both in the rear, ease of access just in case…One pushing into the cooler and one pulling out…
[quote=Whiteysback][quote=frank]You could kill two birds with this setup from BOE…
http://www.monkeytuner.com/forum/download/file.php?id=5796&mode=view
Talk about not having a clue… [/quote]
Now thats just not fair…fancy showing boothy’s interwarmer george foreman combi grill setup
One technical question tho…can you cook a good 14oz ribeye at idle or do you need rev the enigne to get the temps up?.. as for marinade…don’t get him started, took him weeks to get the sauce off his manifold ! [/quote]
Naaa, my car gets used properly, never had an issue yet. Still, if i used it to sit at the drive through or on the m6, i may well look at a heavy and much more complex chargecooler
Boothy have you actually used an OBD reader to check your charge temps?
is it not a bit strange that no one knows the weight of the CC systems they are bolting on there light weight cars ?
1 Kilo for each litre of water (ballast)
perhaps 10 litres is my guess…
Add rads/cores/pipes/pumps/fans…
Add drag on alternator for pumping it around…(or is chargecooler a new form of KERS that Adrian Newey has yet to discover?)
I’d calculate 30 kilo… and given that the modded S2 has 3 kilo per BHP: then you would at least have to gain 10 BHP to get any benefit over a good air/air…
Then you have the problem of fatter cars being considerably poorer on track … S1 Guys will probably vouch for this ?
Queue… you probably are needing 20 BHP to catch up …
Are the gains outweighing the losses ?
Hmmm…
for just 300 bhp ?
I’ll put my money on air/air for the moment !
ps… and there’s the reliability issue … I know of a track session when someone’s pump wasn’t working and temps would appear to have risen !!
Sorry Ade … had to put that one in !!
Seriously tho … each to his own , both solutions appear to work well, it’s down to the individual at the end of the day …
[quote=Whiteysback]Love the fat/muscle analogy frank.
Here’s a few good facts about C/C setups:
Water is four times more efficient at dissipating heat than air, (known as ‘Specific Heat Capacity’).
C/C water temps are only marginally affected by outside ambient air temperatures, and even then, its at a very slow rate. On an A2A system, if the ambient air temp rises, so does the charge temps, immediately.
C/C provides instant cool charge straight off the line, whereas an A2A unit will only start cooling once you have enough air speed going through the core.
I can’t be arsed to type anymore…but you get the jist. For more facts have a look at AVT | PWR Chargecooler Systems | Water to Air Intercooler
[/quote]
Yes water has higher heat capacity, but whats important here is the ability of the convertor (CC or IC) to transfer the heat away from the inlet charge …
If the ambient temps rise so quick that an A/A intercooler gets spooked, then perhaps there’s a nuke been dropped nearby !!
C/Cmay help off the line in racing or Mac D’s , but at any speed over 30 or so mph then in my experience cores work (whether water rads or intercoolers)
So far I haven’t seen one A/A Exige surpass 300 hp on the dyno not to mention the real world…No one has come up with proper ducting to an A/A setup even close to the Red Bull Exige and that wasn’t perfect…
Unless the intercooler is in direct airflow the moment the car begins moving it’s goin to heat up…
Any A/A sittin on top of a toaster is a heatsink…sorry but it’s just a piss poor design in the Exige no matter how good it’s core is…
[quote=frank]So far I haven’t seen one A/A Exige surpass 300 hp on the dyno not to mention the real world…No one has come up with proper ducting to an A/A setup even close to the Red Bull Exige and that wasn’t perfect…
Unless the intercooler is in direct airflow the moment the car begins moving it’s goin to heat up…
Any A/A sittin on top of a toaster is a heatsink…sorry but it’s just a piss poor design in the Exige no matter how good it’s core is… [/quote]
Agreed … but it seems 300 bhp is enough for us …
I,m just illustrating that A/A is all thats needed for 300 … no doubt that for more extreme outputs , something else may beneficial…
The only reason I have stopped at 300hp is the need for the stronger gearbox firstly and any more than 300hp requires a lower compression ratio so therefore engine rebuild. The first is in the pipeline, the second I can’t afford due to the first 
A SC car like mine is probably capable of another 40hp or so if you run more boost with stronger pistons, I will consider this if I can afford to do it on a whim, but 300hp seems easily reached for what is actually not a great deal of money considering you have added 80hp for about �5k
If you run A/A and want 300hp the IC needs to be really good as you run more boost to get it, the more boost the more heat you need to dissapate, if you don’t remove it quickly enough the ECU will start to pull the timing and you no longer have 300hp.
On the road not at full chat for extended periods (but still moving) I have always felt a better A/A IC would probably suffice, but for extended periods on track A/A can’t remove enough heat as the roof intake is just too small, the Redbull car is a perfect example of what you have to do to make A/A work (kind of).
In my simple mind all you are doing with using A/W is moving the heat exchanger to the front of the car where it is best suited to work in the first place…
[quote=jfk]
If the ambient temps rise so quick that an A/A intercooler gets spooked, then perhaps there’s a nuke been dropped nearby !! [/quote]
Hhhmmm…you’ve obviously never monitored the rise in ambient temps around the intercooler on an A2A Exige. Sitting on top of a hot engine things get very hot very, very quickly. Don’t take my word for it tho measure it yourself.
By ambient temps I was referring to outside air temps not engine bay !!! Of course heat will travel up the I/C but as I rarely sit in traffic this is not an issue for me
If any of you air to air, air to water, air to whatever you want guys feel like having a bit of a laugh, we have a 4 channel thermocouple reader that you can borrow.
Sensors are thin enough to push under silicone hose without loosing boost and reader sits inside cabin somewhere sensible.
Without wishing to sound like Frank anyone going to the Oulton track day wish to give it a try?
Not very scientific I know, but gives an indication.
I’ve always had a before and after chargecooler guage in my car along with ambient temp…There’s no was of knowing temps without…
I have the following facts from last Friday’s LoT Silverstone day:
My Exige with Katana (~250bhp no intercooler) weighing 895Kg was comfortably able to pass an Exige S 240 A/A intercoooler weighing 935Kg on a straight whilst going full throttle. I know this because the owner of the Exige S came up to me afterwards and asked why my car was so much faster.
My Exige with Katana (~250bhp no intercooler) weighing 895Kg was able to keep with a Katana (~290bhp with Charge Cooler) weighing 930kg? on a straight at full throttle. When I say “keep with” I mean the car infront wasn’t pulling away.
There was no-one more surprised than I was.
[quote=blacktoy]
My Exige with Katana (~250bhp no intercooler) weighing 895Kg was able to keep with a Katana (~290bhp with Charge Cooler) weighing 930kg? on a straight at full throttle. When I say “keep with” I mean the car infront wasn’t pulling away. [/quote]
…you was drafting him then…lol
But did you guys check to see who’s right foot was heavier ?
[quote=blacktoy]I have the following facts from last Friday’s LoT Silverstone day:
My Exige with Katana (~250bhp no intercooler) weighing 895Kg was comfortably able to pass an Exige S 240 A/A intercoooler weighing 935Kg on a straight whilst going full throttle. I know this because the owner of the Exige S came up to me afterwards and asked why my car was so much faster.
My Exige with Katana (~250bhp no intercooler) weighing 895Kg was able to keep with a Katana (~290bhp with Charge Cooler) weighing 930kg? on a straight at full throttle. When I say “keep with” I mean the car infront wasn’t pulling away.
There was no-one more surprised than I was. [/quote]
I cannot believe you still spout this guff, Steveys lack of any cooling solution at all makes his car faster than one with.
On my last trackday I was able to pass without too much trouble a GT3 RS, clearly the guy should of saved his money.
Boothy
Where you “flat” out at the time?
What exactly is your problem here? I stated FACT of what actually happened. There was no-one more surprised than I was (and the Exige S & Katana CC owner).
Its apparent that the extra 40Kg of weight from the CC and AA intercoolers (and other crap Lotus put in the stock Exige S) play a role in acceleration figures, specifically from what I’ve experienced on track.
Would I like a CC? Yes I would. Would it make a big difference on track going full throttle on the straights? probably not.
You realise that the majority of the supercharged Honda cars have no intercooler or chargecooler?