After Anglesey I think my brakes have finally had it and are going to need changing. Currently I have totally standard brakes other than RS 14 pads in the front.
My car is now running somewhere upwards of 265bhp and tops the scales at 935kgs with half a tank of fuel.
It is most likely that my track driving has improved slightly as on Monday I managed to go FLAT on corners I would never have dared to before and I think the increase in speed possibly highlighted a weakness in my brakes…
Where previously my brakes have always felt very grabby and like dropping an anchor on monday they felt weak and I had a few moments when they really felt like they were struggling.
Now to the question
I can get a full Lotus four pot set up identical to those fitted to the PP cars for sub �1k, thats 308mm solid disks, calipers, braded hoses and a full set of ferodo ds2500 pads.
My only worry is fitting cost as I think you need to remove the front clam to fit the braded hoses? Also I am not sure if the ferodo pads are any good? Any PP car drivers care to comment?
Or I could just get some EBC front disks and a full set of CL RC5 pads which I am guessing would set me back around �350, I could then do as Pesky would say and put the rest towards a couple of trackdays
So what do the exiges think? Am I near the limit of the standard set up with my weight and hp? Or is it just because my RS14’s are getting on a bit?
I don’t want to buy cheap and buy twice as they say up here
I cant recommend Carbon Lorraine pads highly enough. I run the RC6 pads in Time Attack, and I would confidently say I can out-brake any car there. The only downside is that they are monumentally noisy on the road, but apparently the RC5+'s solve this issue.
We also run them on the Westfield, and I am yet to be overtaken in the braking zone.
I run RC5+'s and they feel solid and fade free on track and no squeal on the road, and that’s with two pots, I think the only thing I might do is fit 304mm AP discs and space out the 2 pots for a little more power
Or I could just get some EBC front disks and a full set of CL RC5 pads which I am guessing would set me back around �350, I could then do as Pesky would say and put the rest towards a couple of trackdays
So what do the exiges think? Am I near the limit of the standard set up with my weight and hp? Or is it just because my RS14’s are getting on a bit?
I don’t want to buy cheap and buy twice as they say up here
[/quote]
I tried the ‘economy’ move from std discs to EBC - for about 2 weeks.
EBC are an improvement over standard but still not up to track use.
AP’s are the only way to go IMHO. Lots of debate over 2 pots V 4 pots etc but you can’t beat 308mm AP discs.
For fit and forget brakes I’d go Front : 4 pot AP calipers, 308mm discs, RS14 pads. All round braided hoses/Castrol SRF fluid
I have EBC discs and RC5+ all round plus braided hoses and fresh fluid. Too be honest I’m not overly impressed. In the past couple of months I’ve done 4 track days and a thousand+ road miles on them and they are now properly bedded in. Have just done another track day and they started to struggle a bit. Lack of feel, bite.
The PF '97 pads I had before out braked them no problem. It was just the fall out I couldn’t contend with.
The other day at Hullavington I had a “few moments” where I thought the brakes weren’t going to stop me in time. They did but they just felt a bit crap. The PF pads felt like anchors by comparison.
This is in a standard 190 NA car.
Playing devils advocate, you could always adapt your driving style. A recent instructor put my car round a track and barely braked. In his words he used them to “balance the car”. He’s a Senna fan so that explained it but in many respects he was right. My car can go round most of a track without braking, he just needed to set it up for each corner without losing too much speed.
I personally really rate RS14. Tried loads of pads, and I’m still yet to find one as good on track. Set of braided hoses, RS14 and standard discs is a good setup and will out brake pretty mych everything. Word of warning though - I once changed my rear pads to mintex 1144 half way though a trackday and left pagid RS14 in the front. The brakes were terrible, the fronts constantly locked up on every corner as the rear was so under braked!
Tried ferodo 2500 once. They never faded on track, but were never very inspiring with bite. I wouldn’t have them again.
I’d personally stick to RS14 all round, or give the CL a go. The 4 pots are just not really needed, and will not make the car stop any quicker. If anything, you’ll find a softer brake pedal with the 4 pots which I can’t stand.
This is all very subjective, my set up is brilliant also
AP 308mm front set up
AP 290mm rear standard calipers
RBF600 fluid
braided lines,
never any fade on track and great road manners, just need to watch the bedding in perod on the pads as the dust is hideous if its wet
My biggest issue is with the rears calipers now, they flex like mad and the disc and pad wear is very uneven, I’m still trying to find a manageble solution
[quote=ade]This is all very subjective, my set up is brilliant also
AP 308mm front set up
AP 290mm rear standard calipers
RBF600 fluid
braided lines,
never any fade on track and great road manners [/quote]
I have exactly the same setup with RS4-2 pads, which was done by Plans for the previous owner. I have done 19k very fast road miles, with late,heavy braking on fast runs since last August and still have plenty of life left in the pads. It’s also a daily driver so the brakes get the usual daily abuse as well.
The RBF600 fluid was added by Ollie@Pheonix before the last trackday.
Boothy, I’ve always driven very hard on road, and the year also includes the June Anglesey Norlog day, where I was breaking very late and very hard.
Never ever had any issues with the setup, no fade what so ever with this setup. I’ve had occasional lockup but that is purely to do with me and the way the Ohlins were setup.
The AP Big brake kit is probably the most reliable and dependable single upgrade you could do to your car.
The AP Big brake kit is probably the most reliable and dependable single upgrade you could do to your car.[/quote]
Nope, that would be driver training, & instruction on track
Not sure how you arrive at your comments, given that the previous owner changed the brakes, & you’ve only done 1 trackday (& that was shod with “road” tyres, not 48s or 888s)
We have standard 2 pot callipers all round, with the Hangar111 GT alloy belled 290mm discs on the front and EBC jobs on the back. We use the Carbone Lorraine or Millers Brake fluid.
We also have braided lines front and back, but the pedal feel isn’t fantastic, which I think is due to the valves and piping in the ABS unit.
Never had a jot of fade or indeed any other problems with the brakes, which is a first, as we have had bad experiences with most other cars that have been ‘race prepared’ with ‘track pads’ etc. I think this is probably because I do tend to be the last of the late brakers.
I have the PP setup (AP 308 discs, braided lines, etc) and it’s such an improvement over my previous '06 Exige S standard setup. They didnt fade at all at the 'ring and are fine for daily driving too. I dare say if I went with better pads they’d be better still.
If that included “standard pads”, then you’d be surprised by the improvement possible simply by fitting decent pads. By way of practical example, at our Exiges day in 2006, Gav Kershaw & Matt Becker were driving factory cars, with standard calipers with Pagid pads - they didn’t have any problems braking (until they wore the pads out, & had them replaced by the Edwards Boyz!
The AP Big brake kit is probably the most reliable and dependable single upgrade you could do to your car.[/quote]
Nope, that would be driver training, & instruction on track
Not sure how you arrive at your comments, given that the previous owner changed the brakes, & you’ve only done 1 trackday (& that was shod with “road” tyres, not 48s or 888s) [/quote]
Rob I’ve had A048s on the car as well as road tyres…in 19k miles I think I know how good the brakes are, for me anyway, they inspire a lot of confidence…and I know I can depend on them.
The previous owner had the brakes changed, I’ve driven other Lotus with standard brakes, so I can make the comment that I did, to me, the APs feel superior, and they certainly stop the car as if I’ve dropped anchors…apart from when I charged into the back of the Peugeot but that was my fault and not the brakes.
I’m no track day/driving God, but I’d like to think that I can drive a little bit to know and feel the difference between different setups.
But if you mean that I can’t make the comment because I haven’t driven a car with CR pads or another aftermarket Disc brake then maybe the comment is Gung-Ho! so to speak…but I would have got this setup anyway if the car didnt have them
With respect buddy, track driving is the only place where you find the limit of you & your car’s abiliities. One trackday on road tyres, spinning off four times (alledgedly) is hardly relevent experience to be comparing brakes. I have no doubt whatsoever that your brakes are very good, but my comment was referring specifically to your “The AP Big brake kit is probably the most reliable and dependable single upgrade you could do to your car.”
However, I certainly don’t want to get into a slanging match (cos I like ya!), Tal. I’m certainly no driving God either, but I do speak with the benefit of having driven 87K miles in my Exige, & done many, many trackdays with the standard 2 pot APs, & also after fitting 4 pot APs (both set ups using a variety of makes of competition pads).
None of this helps Boothy though! IMHO he should get the braided hoses fitted/fluid changed, & then upgrade (if necessary) the discs/pads as & when they need replacing (which maybe whilst the clam is off).
As I said in my earlier post, the factory lads don’t need 4 pots to drive an Exige S to the max all day long.
Standard calipers are more than enough IMHO Boothy!
Perhaps get some larger diameter disks and ‘better’ pads. I use Pagid RS42’s and have never had an issue with them… they really stop the car very well! (as those who I took at 120mph into ‘Rocket’ will confirm!!!) but don’t seem to have the RS14 pad transfer problems. Not too much dust and this easily washes off with soap and water.
Puts some good fluid in the system (R600+ is excellent) and off you go mate!
With respect buddy, track driving is the only place where you find the limit of you & your car’s abiliities. One trackday on road tyres, spinning off four times (alledgedly) is hardly relevent experience to be comparing brakes. I have no doubt whatsoever that your brakes are very good, but my comment was referring specifically to your “The AP Big brake kit is probably the most reliable and dependable single upgrade you could do to your car.”
However, I certainly don’t want to get into a slanging match (cos I like ya!), Tal. I’m certainly no driving God either, but I do speak with the benefit of having driven 87K miles in my Exige, & done many, many trackdays with the standard 2 pot APs, & also after fitting 4 pot APs (both set ups using a variety of makes of competition pads).
None of this helps Boothy though! IMHO he should get the braided hoses fitted/fluid changed, & then upgrade (if necessary) the discs/pads as & when they need replacing (which maybe whilst the clam is off).
As I said in my earlier post, the factory lads don’t need 4 pots to drive an Exige S to the max all day long. [/quote]
Rob, no offence was taken and none meant(hate the way writing comes across sometimes, should have put more smileys in)…personally I have a lot of respect for you through reading your posts, and as always anyone with any or even more experience than me when it comes to Lotus, especially when it comes to any improvements, I am all ears and want to pick their brains…I’ve got a long way to go before I reach your 87k miles or even experience with these cars.
I appreciate your comments with respect to you trying different setups on and off track…and agree I don’t have the benefit of that myself…
This thread is an interesting read guys
The disks and pads need doing so its just a case of finding out which would be best for my needs or perhaps will be more future proof?
Looking at pricing I know I can buy the Lotus PP big brake kit from Chris Neils for a couple of quid under a grand including the dreaded. This is giving me the braded hoses, four pots, 308mm solid disks and ferodo (was he a hobbit?) pads…
If I go the AP route, the grand buys me 290mm belled front disks and a full set of CL/pagid/PF pads.
So the four pot route is obviously a more budget route to four pots but in the future I could upgrade the pads when they need swapping. I am not sure how the solid 308mm disks will be for getting rid of the heat compaired to the smaller 290mm AP’s?
Or do I go the AP route sticking with my existing calipers? That way if I ever went four pot (would I need too?) I would be ditching expensive disks…
I suppose the question is would the budget four pots out brake the expensive AP two pot option?
I suppose the question is would the budget four pots out brake the expensive AP two pot option?
What would others do? I’m confused.
Boothy [/quote]
My 2peneth - Must do is the fluid & braided hoses
Most people (including Lotus) think the 2 pot calipers are good enough. The early 240 cup cars only had 2 pot’s
Nobody has mentioned weight as a factor in this either. The 4 pot calipers and bigger solid discs will weigh a bit more than 2pots and proper 2 piece discs. Also with the 2 piece discs you can replace the rotors as required.
If the budget is a grand I’d go with the existing calipers & better discs/pads and braided hoses/fluid
