Frank! Please chill man!!! John is NOT a fool! He is actually a TOP bloke with a heart of gold in the right place!
Like a lot of us on here, this is all new stuff as the tuning market gradually matures to offer us ‘stock’ Lotus 220S guys a bit more ‘bang’ for our bucks. No one, JFK included, wants to shortcut the process by not spending a few more bucks on a proper mapping session… Spending an hour or so at Essex etc on a RR to get the AFR’s sensible is indeed logical. But of course is things were satis as they could be intrepreted as being so by guys with less experience than you, the feedback they are offering us all could be valuable.
I agree with your 10-15 second at WOT thoughts… Both Donnington and Silverstone have long straights that our cars are easily at WOT at high rpm for this amount of time! (back in my S1 VHPD days, all behind me commented on the smell of unburnt fuel!.. that was Dave Walker mapping my car on the rich side to negate my ‘K’ going pop and ending up in Simons collection!!!). So personally I think I would agree that a dyno run needs to include WOT for more than just 5 seconds etc.
We are all on the same ‘team’ here and none of us want to see guys with melted pistons/blown engines. If we all give constructive feedback during this evloving process of releasing the power from our otherwise stock Yota Mota’s with better induction/exhaust/maps etc etc, then hopefully we will arrive at a realiable 270 ish BHP… and can continue to admire you with your Lambo beating 600!
[quote=jfk]Ade … Blacktoy …Cin …
Please post your AFR graphs up for comparison ?
If you are not willing then what is the point of harping on ? [/quote]
Sorry I don’t have a super charger on my 2zz. Mine is N/A…
One point to note is that this engine is very prone to knocking between 4500-6000 rpm. I have a stand alone ECU that can log knock. Its been on my car since 2003 now…
[quote=chrisexigegt][quote=MarkS2s]I know nothing about AFR’s, and this thread is quite worrying for me, so can you please take a look at my readings (sorry about the quality, is a phone pic) and let me know your thoughts.
My car came in @ 297.8 bhp with just TRD, Forge cooler, 2Bular 24x8 GT3, CN’s lotus 260 upgrade.
Edit to say, we could really do with a RGB/ 260 cup graph posting up! [/quote]
I’ve been following this from a distance in my bunker with my lid on - time to poke my nose in
I know fook all about tuning, AFR’s etc but from reading this thread and others I think caution should be used when venturing much beyond the Lotus 260 map. If you look at all of the people on here running 270 + the majority have got custom maps to avoid issues. Mark your 297 is impressive but I’d be cacking myself or getting it down to Essex Motorsport pronto
Take a look at Frank’s history on Lotus tuning over the years and I have to agree with him - no issues going 270 + but fitting aftermarket bits and hoping the stock Map will cope is potentially risky. Just re read the thread and the first 3 pages are inviting comments/advice but by the end it’s turned into a sh*t fight
We’re all looking out for each other in our own inimitable fasion [/quote]
The thing is i have not ventured beyond the 260 map i have a 2bular zorst , forge cooler and TRD airbox. Now i only got the CN upgrade last week, hence going on the dyno on sat. Now my AFR readings should be no different to any other person’s thats had the 260 upgrade from CN’s as most of the people who have this usually have a 2bular and trd already installed, so as mine, Johns & Boothys are all similar AFR’s and the majority of people on here are saying we are sitting on a time bomb then the worry has to be so will all others with this upgrade! which surely can NOT be the case.
If we all look back not too long ago Lotus wouldn’t reflash cars to 243 without AP’s, Accusump etc.
Now 260 reflashes are available off the shelf with no big brakes, no increased fuel pumps, no accusump.
Don’t get me wrong I think CN’s have done well to get the upgrades out of Lotus but you’ve got to ask yourself where the limit is for stock bits etc. I’ve got a TRD & a 2bular (albeit the normal one) and a Forge but I wouldn’t even think my car is much more than 270. The map you guys are running is identical to mine along with the injectors.
With the 297 you’ve seen I’d also be worried about gearboxes - again all the guys looking at around 300 have had or are expecting the standard box to let go sooner rather than later.
If you forget all the opinions etc and look at the facts several knowledgeable people are all saying the same thing - AFR’s are the key and if you have seen 13’s & 14’s as on the dyno images when it’s generally accepted that it should be low 12’s across the range and lower if possible. If it were my car I’d at least get a second professional opinion. Why not ring Russell Gibbons at Lotus - worth a call ?
[quote=chrisexigegt] If it were my car I’d at least get a second professional opinion. Why not ring Russell Gibbons at Lotus - worth a call ?
[/quote]
Chris , it might as well be your car as you have the same map as us 3 have.
Boothy,s was the leanest
Mine was the middle one
Marks was slightly richer than mine,but was running Tesco momentum.
Unless all 260 cars out there are about to melt , this thread should be regarded as per the new title !
Ps. when Frank wakes up and reads the new title it’ll be his gasket that blows . :tired:
They wont all melt if the cars are not abused. What Frank is saying is that to be absolutely safe from an AFR point of view, you have to remap.
Frankly I would just log AFR from a widebank fitted before the catalyser, and log injector duty, oil temp, knock and ignition timing and you will be able to see if you are doing fine or not.
One question. Is the supercharged exige using the same injectors/fuel pump as the N/A one?
Ok here is my AFR on my totally stock Lotus 260 tune. Personally I am of the opinion lotus should just give up and farm everything out to some people with a backstreet dyno.
You can clearly see the pattern of mine is very similar to John’s so I really can’t see him blowing up anytime soon otherwize everyone with a 260 is fooked!
For the record I do not believe the stated power out puts as I think the correction was a little high looking at the hub figures. But I am happy my car is running a good 260 or so.
I am totally pissed I put my car on in a heat soked state as it clearly robbed it of power.
However Marks car is the freak, I have spoken to Paul and he would like to get us both in to check Marks software against mine to see if Lotus have made further updates or if he fluked a 270 tune.
Marks car which is a the same as mine made 25RWHP more than mine and that cannot be just down to heat soke or it just being a good engine.
[quote=jfk]^^^ great stuff Frank ^^^
Fully agree about tailoring everything together …
I’ll try and get a video of the af gauge on a pull posted as soon as I can …
See what you make of it ?
Obviously there’s more to be gained …
It’s great tho to get some feedback from peeps that really know their stuff .
At the moment ,for me It’s about keeping things safe …power optimization comes second … [/quote] I’m not having a personal battle with anyone, I just want that to be perfectly clear and I want everyone to know that JFK’s AFR’s are dangerous under sustained loads…
Oh yeah I know the Lotus engineer that did the mapping of the 240 S… We’ve shared lots of info in the past on the GT3 cars…More like they asked me what I did to my car to make the power live…
[size:14pt] Some of these posts beggar belief…
Here,s a little graph interpretation exercise …Which one is richer ?[/size]
[color:#000099] This one is Boothys Stock manifold…[/color]
[color:#000099] This one is JFK’s with 4-1 Manifold[/color]
The old traces from the previous runs with the standard manifold are on here too.
Look at the red,dark green and dark blue .
[size:17pt] [color:#FF0000]Now tell me putting the 2bular 4-1 manifold on has made mine weaker ? [/color] [/size]
commented on the smell of unburnt fuel!.. that was Dave Walker mapping my car on the rich side to negate my ‘K’ going pop and ending up in Simons collection!!!). So personally I think I would agree that a dyno run needs to include WOT for more than just 5 seconds etc.
[/quote]
