Seen on seloc, but link to Pistonheads.
Hopefully not as bad as it first sounds.
If it sticks that sets a very unfortunate precedent. I’ve shared the circuit on trackdays with cars that are worth more than my house 
I guess the most likely outcome is that the disclaimer will be made stronger to effectively sign away all rights of redress.
Muu?
My gut feeling is that the guy must have been hooning through yellows for the judge to rule it as negligence.
That’s the thing Benja, a disclaimer doesn’t change your rights if someone’s acted negligently or deliberately dangerously.
But redress against who though? There’s an inference that one TDO organiser has added a line to remove themselves from claim further, and potentially to pursue against losses, but with not much to help out the attendee.
Hopefully there will be more info come out, or a different indemnity forms to protect everyone. Please lets not have another TF days at the Ring situation!!
Yes maybe,…but determining negligence is subjective. The boundary between inexperience, ineptitude, over-enthusiasm, recklessness and negligence will be pretty tough especially months/years after the event in a courtroom by a judge who is likely to know nothing about trackdays and how they work. Even when there is in-car video evidence it’s sometimes still not clear cut imho.
Yup agreed…here’s hoping 
Muu again and in his case a Racer (see what I did there) on a “track day”. I like this, so far so good, the removal of "Mr Racing Driver I’m so cool 
" on a track day. I don’t get overly concerned by other Track Day drivers, it’s the race cars testing that cause the problems on many a track day I attend. Red lights, breakdowns, off’s and general shit driving. I think it’s a positive step towards doing either or… Today Donny was a test day, F1, F3, FFord, Radical, GT, LOT and others so fill your boots and mix it with them race boys. Then if I get hit by some incompetent f***wit on a TD I’m using the wrong organiser…
Yeah I’m with you Jonny. I don’t think it would be workable (or desirable) to ban race-licence holders from trackdays. It would be workable to have a policy that does not allow trackday attendance at a circuit where the driver is scheduled to race in say the next 30days. This would deter the crowds of racers who use trackdays as a test day in the days leading up a race meet. For a TDO this would of course result in turning business away…I guess it depends whether this leaves a viable business or not??
In Muu’s case if I was Judge & Jury my verdict on Mr Kenny would be…inexperience and ineptitude.
It’s seems clear the TDO is covering their arses carefully, but that wouldn’t alter the situation here I guess.
As the Caterham driver was insured he has the upper hand in all this is the message I get, in so much they want to extract their costs back and if they see anyway to do it they will do just that and have …
There must have been evidence that the Civic driver was in some way negligent, but as we don’t have any of the data it’s impossible to know.
But I guess the overall message is to remind us of the dangers, just imagine a situation like the Porsche GT and where would you legally stand if someone came after you … And how the heck can you not be negligent actually is the main issue I think … Passengers for me are a bigger question now
That’s it Ben absolutely right, maybe it would be viable though mate and maybe it would bring the price down but not significantly enough to bring in the chav. Either way it’s a safer bet and would encourage those who don’t to do. I use BaT, I’m confident enough to know that if I go to Jonny something will be done. I never moan no matter what, I know he’d respond to a single moan knowing it must have been close. Having said that not being being a TDO I cant really say if its viable or not or whether it would limit what I enjoy mostly or not. But one day it could be too little too late. Then again I’m quite whyly on some tracks but less so on others, I guess that’s where I’d be taking it a little easier, first off. Muu should sue, as would I like to if hit by a race driver doing a track day or over taking without concent or on yelllow’s as per briefing… In this case we don’t know the actually situation but if I had that incicent on camera…tempted 
Can’t they just tighten up the sign on form, to basically say “you are taking your life in your own hands and nobody can sue anybody for anything”?
No. You cannot contract yourself to ‘outside of the law’. Any solicitor would challenge that as first step.
An isolated incident and unlikely to be upheld in many cases so there must be some detail in this case a solicitor was able to pin it on.
I spoke to a solicitor friend last night and he made the point that this is in a County Court so won’t be taken as wider precedent and most judges would apply common sense and dismiss most claims unless a compelling negligent act could be proved.
Lets hope this is the case, however I think we have a thin end of a wedge here.
How long before we have no win no fee scumbags jumping on things like this
from pistonheads it looks like he hit the guy under yellows, though there’s some doubt as to whether he’d have seen the yellow flag at that corner and some doubt as to whether someone on an ‘msv novice’ day is negligent or just plain inexperienced
All reasons to one side, accidents can happen, especially at the higher speeds of trackdays.
Its only a matter of time before we have a no win no fee claim going on
I have spoken to two or three trackday insurers and they will all only offerance for your own car.
As well as saying no claims are possible due to the wording of the imdenity forms we sign, which now appears not to be the case!!!
Does anyone know of an insurance co that will cover these third party situations?
I for one would happily pay a decent premium to know that if the worst happens, some random Judge cant put me into a situation where i could potentially loose the house etc etc
i thought CCI only covered your own car because you signed away your rights to claim against accidental damage in the tday disclaimer so there was no need for them to cover other cars, i’m not sure if they’d insure you for negligence much as they probably wouldn’t pay out if you hit someone head on while drunk on the road
I think the good news is this happened in 2010 so if you ever do bin your car into a gravelled mclaren you have enough time to put everything you own in someone elses name and claim bankruptcy when the 250k bill finally comes through
Jonny Leroux posted the following on the pistonheads thread :
Update: I have spoken one of the directors of Chaucer Insurance Services Ltd. There is an internal investigation going on at the moment - expect a full statement next week. I have no further insight into what this might include but until then I suggest everyone holds fire on any action/comment/response/witch hunt.
I use Chaucer 
Keep us posted of the trackdays you intend to do
We can then stay away!!! 