190 ECU rev limit and RR results part 4

General General Lotus Talk
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Contacted Lotus AND got a reply [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Here is the reply:Dear Mr. Dovey,There are several points here to consider. To check that you have the 190upgrade you need to read the PROM ID with a scanner tool. This shouldinclude ‘…TSILV’.The information about the rev. limit is incorrect. On the standard and 190version, the cut out is at 7900 with reinstatement at 7850rpm.You need to check, or have your dealer check the following points:- Is the throttle opening fully? This is one of the most common oversights.- is the cam timing correct? The power peak at 6500 is too low. The third’T’ mark on the inlet cam should align with the Exhaust cam mark with thecrank at the timing position.- Has the intake resonator valve been removed and a single (clean) coneintake filter fitted at the inlet end collecting cold air?- Has a cat. substitute pipe been fitted, together with the Supersportmuffler?- What is the fuel pressure?- Has the fuel filter been checked? - Are there any fault codes?- What are the cylinder compressions?- What are the valve clearances?- What is the oil consumption?During the rolling road test:- What were the tyre pressures?- What were the air temperatures and barometric pressure?"All very good points, and all checked apart from compressions etc - BUTThe main point is the “NEW” 190 is NOT limited at 7800 … make of that what you will now …Best wishes for the week [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif[/image]Andrewps - If anyone knows who invented the rubber rawl plug - give him a slap will you - thanks [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]

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Hey Mini,SDpoke yesterday to Dave Andrews about modifying my head (so I stop thinking of wasting money in my car) [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif[/image] .I mentioned the fact that although my car car rev up to 8000rpm there is little point in doing so because there is no more HP up there and he mentioned that it’s a common thing, he’s sure the cam timing is wrong, he’s seen it before and he says that cam timing alone corrects this.He gave me some numbers, but I don’t remember.So, lots of gains can be had just by degreeing the cams correctly, then porting and then changing the cam (he doesn’t like the original Piper 872).220HP is realistic just with headwork, cams (and of course the Emerald ECU).Hmmmm, interesting.Uldis [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]

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UldisThanks for that - I’m total convinced that the cam timing is whats wrong - now I’ve got the thing on axle stands and all the suspension off, wheel arch liners out etc I can easy access the pulleys so …CheersAndrew

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Hi Miniman,We have got our Exige in a similar state, (suspension off) but we also have the engine out and in bits (leaking head gasket) but we are possibley thinking of doing cams/verniers etc while it’s out do you have any tips on what’s best. Also do you know the cam timing for std setup so that we can check it first.Cheers Steve & Martin (Diffuser Boys)

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Well, the pulleys should be easily accessible from the top as well, even with the clam on, right?In fact, I want to do this first, before venturing to do the porting, cam etc job, only that I’m not sure of all the equipment needed/steps involved.Uldis

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Diffuser Boys !! Hello Its great - I found a knackerd wheel bearing, a duff track rod end so far - all ball joints are OK … but I’m changing anyway … As far as the timing etc is concerned the short answer is no ! - but it would be fun to work this out together ? I found that Piper verniers are about 150 quid … I think the DVA web site has some good information though. Uldis - yes you can get at them from the top, but to see the bottom pulley timing marks correct your best off removing the wheel arch liner, also you can see the cover bolts a lot easier and taking the liner out is a five minute job … except for those damn rubber rawl bolts [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/image] CheersAndrew

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Try setting the inlet at .118 thou lift @ TDC and exhaust at .110 thou lift @ TDC, thats 3mm and 2.54mm if your DTI is metric !!

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What about timiong wheels?I was reading Dave’s instructions at: AOL.co.uk | Breaking News, Sport, Features and Video - AOL.com but I don’t see any reference to a timing wheel, I would suppose that is the more precise way, right?Anyway, I sent a mail to Piper asking for clarifications on the 3 cams I’m interested on: 1227, the one recommended by Dave Andrews.740, a good one also mentioned by Dave, more recommended for a VVC872, the one we currently have in the VHPDBelow thir response:“Uldis Please see below the specs for the cams you talked about. #1227Timing: 37-63 Inlet, 68-32 Exhaust.Duration: 280 DegreesValve Lift: 0.462"Valve Clearances: 0.008” Inlet, 0.010" Exhaust.Full Lift: 103 Degrees Inlet, 108 Degrees Exhaust. #872Timing: 34-66 Inlet, 68-32 Exhaust.Duration: 280 DegreesValve Lift: 0.393"Valve Clearances: 0.008" Inlet, 0.008" Exhaust.Full Lift: 106 Degrees Inlet, 108 Degrees Exhaust. #740Timing: 32-64 Inlet, 68-28 Exhaust.Duration: 276 DegreesValve Lift: 0.439"Valve Clearances: 0.008" Inlet, 0.010" Exhaust.Full Lift: 106 Degrees Inlet, 110 Degrees Exhaust. In your spec engine i would fit the #740 cams as these would still give you a good power gain over standard. These offer more lift than the #872 cams so will give you more torque lower down and make them still very drivable. The #1227 cams are really for full race engines and are not very drivable for road use. I hope that this helps. Regards GarryCam Sales"I don’t understand. Dave told me that for the VHPD he would definitely not go with the 740, but the 1227.And then I still don’t understand the way to time them.But I think I will need a dial of some sorts (Halfords?) [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Uldis

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Martin / Steve Send me an e-mail and I will send you some information …Andrew

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I have DVA head and 1227 cams - driveability is not an issue for me as mine is pretty much a race car now anyway. However I have been in another similar spec engine that can be driven around in 5th gear at 30mph - so its not a problem. Mine is still only making 195 though :-(Cheers

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Uldis,I have 1227’s - they are spot on for road use! Like Mark said, 30 is no longer a 2nd gear speed. Go for them - definitely.

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I agree, 1227’s are very drivable on the road, the cams really come on between 4-5K with a bit of a kick [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Follow Dave A’a instructions for the cam timing, all you need is dial gauge and bracket to hold it, i have a magnetic base and metal plate which is held down using the cam cover bolts, the magnetic base then “sticks” to that.With the higher lift of the 1227’s you must use double valve springs and new steel caps.Mark, How come only 195 ?[This message has been edited by Phil (edited 25 February 2003).]

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Miniman,You have mail!Oh by the way we have changed the suspension bushes for nylatron while it was all off. The old rubber ones were getting a little loose (high load from the slicks I think) Cheers Martin & Steve.

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Phil - don’t know yet. Dave hadn’t quite moved when he mapped it, but had no compression test equipment at Brixton. Fortunately (well, I’m trying to think positive) my gear linkage (or hopefully not gearbox) failed on Monday so car is at the doctors again, so they can run a compression test and/or cylinder leakage test. Car was a bit down on power before, feels f****** quick even at 195! We should know soon…

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Let me know what the results are for the compression test, i have just tested mine, done 1000 miles since the rebuild and with the throttle wide open, injectors and ignition disconnected then cranking for 10 seconds they all read 250 PSI. Not sure if its supposed to be this high but at least there all the same [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]Dave W measured them at 180PSI on the old engine that was run in with a pussy light foot for the first 1000 miles, this time it didn’t receive any gently treatment [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Cheers[This message has been edited by Phil (edited 25 February 2003).]

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quote:Originally posted by Miniman:and taking the liner out is a five minute job … except for those damn rubber rawl bolts [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/image] CheersAndrewAndrew,My rear liner doesn’t have rawl bolts, just rusty C clips and screws and those plastic fixing thingies [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/confused.gif[/image]

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Phil !I’m so racked off with those rawl bolts ( rear liner - rear fixings ) [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/mad.gif[/image] - the only way to get 'em out is cut the heads off and do that without scratching the paint - no. For that matter the bloody plastic thingies are a pain as well !! I’m going to change 'em all for captive nuts and grease [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]

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Well, after all this talk, I went to read again and I think I understood how to check the cam timing.I’ll buy the dial and the verniers and give it a go.Then put it on a rolling road.What if the result is about 190? then it would mean that the 190 Lotus ECU was a scam all along. When I took my car to be remapped (the warranty thing) I was with the mechanic at all times and there was absolutely no menu or hint that he chose to program the 177 one or the system told him that it was that version. And as he told me bluntly, it’s the same machine, program and procedure for both, and that they looked the same from the outside (he wouldn’t know what was in the inside).Let’s see. [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]UldisPS - Phil, how did you come up with those numbers (.118 and .110)? I just got a reply from Dave Andrews that says: “…the most accurate way to set cam timing is to set the lift at TDC to the correct setting, in the case of your cams the setting is 125 thou inlet, 105thou exhaust.”[This message has been edited by Uldis (edited 26 February 2003).]

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Andrew, i take it you “love” those fixings then tee hee [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif[/image]Uldis, the figures came from information Dave has on his website !

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You’re right Phil, those numbers are on the website, in mm.Well, I would take than the latest numbers have proven better, hence yesterday’s reccomendation: .125, .105. [image]http://www.exiges.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]Uldis[This message has been edited by Uldis (edited 26 February 2003).]