Inlet charge temps

Topics specific to owners of the series 2 Exige
JDS
Posts: 1307
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by JDS » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:33 pm

So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don't think we are quite comparing apples with apples.

Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.

The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing.

Boothy
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 8:59 pm
Location: Bolton, oop north

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by Boothy » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:09 pm

[quote=ade]What this does make me wonder is how bad a standard S without the extended scoop must be especially if you have a gotham or CN 260 upgrade :o [/quote]

Or the early 240R and 240cup NA roofs with a slot cut out.

User avatar
frank
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:59 pm
Location: Ca. USA..LA
Contact:

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by frank » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:11 pm

[quote=JDS]So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don't think we are quite comparing apples with apples.

Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.

The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing. [/quote]
You are right there are no apples the same size as mine.. :D

First off with more than twice the torque/power that 40 sec. of wide open throttle would cut quite a bit maybe to twenty five. As a matter of fact I can't even find a road long enough that could give me 40 sec. of full tilt loud peddle.
On the dyno I do 15 sec. pulls with only a 5*f rise in intake temps, unless the road is all up hill it is no where as hard on the engine as the dyno fully loaded without any airflow around the engine...
As I said my air through the heatexchangers vairies between 40-120 mph so the cooling air is not constant but off and on..... Temps don't recover when breaking but when you increase the airflow through the heatexchangers, sure you are not making more heat but the cooling medium [water] is now heat soaking slightly... Step on the gas and watch the temps drop.....

Seriously why do you guys follow rules set down when you are only doing a track day, think outside the box where there are no rules.

The GT3 car was arse slow compared to mine and my charge temps were much lower when I was just supercharged.....This is fact.

Don't just limit yourself to what you can buy off the shelf but look for some one that can make the proper setup for you, there are no rules....Take advantage of that fact.. :cool:

661
Posts: 1411
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: East Sussex

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by 661 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:34 pm

Well that is why we got (credit to moonin) MMG to make a bespoke A/A I/C using marston aerospace exchangers. These are the guys that make the I/Cs for the Fezza and Red Bull F1 teams. Same spec cores. Yes, it's not a C/C, but I don't have 4 rads and 800brake. i just need to put some science to it. I'll try to get Moonin's OBD2 for Goodwood, but obviously it won't be apples for apples.
Anyway frank, enough of your apples, I suppose you reckon your plums are the dog's as well , don't you?
Graeme

chrisexigegt
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by chrisexigegt » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:07 pm

[quote=JDS]So what would happen if you were on a track? Appreciate that your car has a load more power and rads, but I don't think we are quite comparing apples with apples.

Spa is a good 40 seconds of WOT from mid 2nd gear to mid 5th ish, with a girly lift through the bottom of Eau Rouge, then the rest of the lap is pretty full on with 3rd/4th/5th gear corners and minimal braking, and chance for the temperatures to recover.

The only way for a true comparison is for the same car, driver, track, day, conditions to back to back all the options. Preferably without knowing whihc one is fitted at the time of testing. [/quote]

Girly lift - you talkin to me ???? :cry:

User avatar
frank
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:59 pm
Location: Ca. USA..LA
Contact:

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by frank » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:28 pm

[quote=661]Well that is why we got (credit to moonin) MMG to make a bespoke A/A I/C using marston aerospace exchangers. These are the guys that make the I/Cs for the Fezza and Red Bull F1 teams. Same spec cores. Yes, it's not a C/C, but I don't have 4 rads and 800brake. i just need to put some science to it. I'll try to get Moonin's OBD2 for Goodwood, but obviously it won't be apples for apples.
Anyway frank, enough of your apples, I suppose you reckon your plums are the dog's as well , don't you? [/quote]
Well, the dog's got his own but he does have an envious look in his eye.. :whistle:

I can't seem to find any A/A intercoolers on those cars F1 cars. :cry:

Unless you mount an A/A much like the Red Bull Exige in the boot with proper ducting you are just wastin money for very little gain...

If you don't want my advice don't take it, enjoy your bitchin about the heat you can't rid and the power you will never make.....It's only your time and money to waste..enjoy :D

User avatar
moomin
Posts: 1317
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:02 pm

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by moomin » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:44 am

Frank I don't think anyone on here is saying your system dosnt work or you don't know what your talking about and I'm sure your car needs that sort of cooling BUT all I was saying is for those of us with normal 300hp sized testicles I don't think four pre-rads and all the extra weight is needed , it's clear that just by changing the rubbish standard intercooler for a Forge tube and fin intercooler lowers IATs a fair bit , what if it got lots more airflow and a ( on paper ) more efficient bar and plate intercooler ?

User avatar
frank
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:59 pm
Location: Ca. USA..LA
Contact:

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by frank » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:26 am

The weight of a proper chargecooler and aditional heatexchangers is muscle mass not fat. With more sustained power you can surpass any A/A intercooled Lotus..
There are no powerful A/A intercooled Lotus with the cooler in the stock location..

The problem is the intercooler placement and the lack of airflow... If you want to stick with an A/A look at the placement of the VF supercharger intercooler..

jfk
Posts: 3253
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Dudlaay.

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by jfk » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:56 am

All well and good ,but,how do you explain my low intake temps then if air/air don't work??

User avatar
frank
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:59 pm
Location: Ca. USA..LA
Contact:

Re: Inlet charge temps

Post by frank » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:53 am

[quote=jfk]All well and good ,but,how do you explain my low intake temps then if air/air don't work?? [/quote]
Let's see the data logs of your throttle position and on boost/time.

If your A/A setup worked or if the A/A of any Lotus track day specials worked they would be used on a "real track car"... Sorry dude they all fall far short of the mark.
If Ade had my old supercharger "only" chargecooler with it's two heatexchangers and dual pumps there would be no discussion...
Enjoy the competition between one another it's a good thing...

But ask yourself why did Lotus choose A/W, for the added weight ?

Post Reply