ouch! Simon’s ‘health check report’ makes for sad reading Uldis! But now you have a new baby…
Simon - what’s this about a 2 litre? Should I hang fire on building my engine?
Congratulation’s on your new engine Uldis. Bummer you couldn’t make it to the ring. Hope we can meet at some point before I head back to NZ next year.
I do sincerely hope that things work out well with the new engine. Simon’s comments unintentionally do highlight one short coming and I’m not trying to stir here. That is the woeful stage of the work carried out by so called tuners. If everything he has said is correct - then the majority of owners with tuned engines are going to suffer failures - unless they get Simon’s magic touch. Given that the vast majority of owner’s don’t know he exists then that won’t be enough to restore its image (pity he wasn�t around a few years ago). The beauty of the Honda is that it doesn’t require any fettling to make the magic 200hp RELIABILITY. Out of the box it will deliver the goods. Yes you pay a healthy premium for the privilege, but for those who are in the fortunate position of being able to afford it - it gives peace of mind on track that other’s can only dream of. While I can understand your desire to keep the car ‘original’ I look at it from a slightly different view point. If the Elise/Exige had come out with a Lotus engine I may well have endeavored to keep it that way. But the reality is it didn’t and Lotus in their wisdom chose to outsource for the selection of the power plant. Should they have gone for a Honda none of this would have been an issue. And in my opinion this would have been a better option. The Elise in its standard form is underpowered no question about it. The accepted magic number is 200hp and if the car had been delivered with it, I strongly believe even with a price hike they would have sold just as many (if not more). If this had been the case I doubt many people would have been interested in power upgrades since 200hp is about right for the car. However it never happened (the engine wasn’t even available) and Honda wouldn’t have sold it to Lotus in any case. But it’s food for thought none the less.
If the Simon had been around 12 months ago (in public) I would have put him on my short list no doubt about it. Although I’m not bothered today since I’m making 225hp at the moment with a standard engine. The option of throttle bodies is still there and has been shown to demonstrate very interesting gains in both HP and torque.
There is certainly room in the market for both to exist and should we eventually meet I’d be happy to throw you my keys for a few laps if you would be prepared to reciprocate. Having been under whelmed by a test drive in an Exige as compared to a Honda powered variant I would enjoy a drive in a K-powered Exige that was properly sorted.
You sure you can’t burn the midnight oil to get to the Ring. Must be a few Scottish Elise guys who would be prepared to help out - I know I would. The run to the ring would be perfect to break her in - and it’s unlikely there’ll be another opportunity to drive arguably one of the greatest circuits in the world without the fear of meeting a tour bus around the next corner for such a low price. Hell if I still had Honda money I�d fly over to help you
Ian,
your post must be the most balanced pro-Honda opinion tat I’ve ever read.
Spot on.
Additionaly, the lack of initial power is what must have attracted lots of tuners, seeing it easy to extract some more needed horses, but bodging it in the way.
And I’m sure if the Honda or Toyota units had been used initially, this would have been unlikely to happen, since more thought would have been put into tuning the extra horses.
On the assembly side, I have been working (after work) normally all evenings, until 12:00-1:00am, but after finding that I wouldn’t have a chance to make it to the mapping session Today, and seeing that Tuesday was fully booked, and realising I couldn’t do the trip, I skipped the night before yesterday and din’t do anything.
Too knackered.
That put me way behind now.
The thing is that unlike the Honda, I have to map the K to its new state of tune. Couldn’t run in the engine on the way there, it has to be run in before going to Emeald.
And yes, some of the S_'ers have come to help me, but the build still goes slow. There are a few things that need to be put right, if it was a normal routine assembly and I had done it in the past, it would be quicker.
But yes, I can see that a bad Exige left you a bad impression, and I have seen myself some bad ones (amazing the difference the throttle cable adjustment can do for ex.).
And I’m sure we’ll still find at another track. and I’ll be happy to test your car, and you mine.
It wold be a nice, objective comparison.
Uldis, Simon, Ian
excellent postings guys… most interesting and hope to read some more soon. Uldis, those oil galleries are scary…
Simon
Where can I get Racecar Engineering ?? I looked in a few newsagents and can’t find it? I’d really like to read your article.
I’mm off to Cadwell tommorrow… (well today actually… better get off to bed… )
[/quote] It is worth noting that the K2000 this year replaced the KV6 2.0L engines run in previous seasons , and is no more powerful than that engine .The success of this seasons car has been as a result of competative output from the 4 cylinder engine in an engine that is 40kg lighter than last seasons KV6, which clearly demonstrates the lack of sense in replacing Ks with heavy engines — ie any other engine but particularly Toyotas , Hondas and Audis![/quote]
…But the 111R is agreed by all the press as 'the best Elise yet
Im sure everyone who views this site wishes Uldis the very best with his re-build…but as it is Uldis’s re-build, it will conveniently provide you with the perfect excuse, should anything fail!
Uldis, I do hope all your hard efforts reward you with a great car
Randy, I dont think anyone will need a stronger umbrella just yet
Tim
As for Randy - never mind the umbrellas, find yourself a bunker.
One of the things I love about Exiges.com, even the disagreements are polite and clever.
Ian
As for the engine choice, believe me Lotus considered everything…the first choice was a federalised K, Lotus even asked permission to do the federalising work themselves.
I was thinking more about this earlier (whilst sat in the back of a Picasso, where I am now stationed for family outings to reduce the amount of vomit! ), and a few questions popped into my head
- So why didn’t it happen?
- Surely with something like an Emerald you could get it through emissions?
- Why weren’t lotus given permission?
- Did they even need it?
- Surely the Toyota was a better US option anyway?
- Did Honda sell their version of the Rover 400 in the US and therefore there would be K parts about…but perhaps it had a Honda engine anyway…so perhaps not?
Ian
Looks like I will need to take a shopping trip here - http://www.usbunkers.com/
On the Toyota front, its simple common sense that the YotaMota is going to be better than the K. It may be a bit heavier but I would rather have a bit of over-engineering to keep things reliable.
Proof will be in the pudding, you may well be right. I would be suprised if the YotaMota isn’t bloody reliable though. Toyota have enormous resources and these Japs are clever little buggers.
I remember being shown the V6 Lexas (Toyota) engine when it was being built by Nicholson McLaren for Alan Prost’s ice racing car. The quality of the thing was superb, a bit like the Honda K20. So many of the standard parts could be retained because they were so bloody good.
If the K series is so dead reliable how come Gavan Kershaw’s car did not finish the distance at Donnington at the weekend ? It retired near the end with lots of smoke coming out… It way bloody fast though, I’ll give it that.
Got my RaceCar engineering this morning, it has got an article on the K series. But not the one Simon goes on about. It’s the Honda K series, an article entitled “for those wanting reliable and affordable power, look no further than the Honda K20A”
Do they know something Simon doesn’t ?
Bernard
Bernhard - I don’t know what the smoke was but on the pit wall they thought it was gearbox smoke. The car retired because it ran out of fuel!!
The engine has had some major problems throughout the year though and I’m sure it would have won the championship if it had a Honda in the back.
Looking forward to my copy of Racecar Engineering with the K-series article now.
Hmmmmm, the smoke seemed to be getting worse to me. Strange to see so much coming from a gearbox.
It might have been one of the typical race understatements like “oil leaving the engine by an unintended route” used by McLaren to explain a retirement caused by a rod through the side of the block.
Shame it had to pull out for whatever reason because it was showing up a lot of much more powerful cars.
Bernard
I’ll give Barrie a call to see what the problem actually was, I’m sure they would have investigated by now.
The times he was posting were seriously impressive and a good representation of what our little Loti are ultimately capable of.
Hmmmmm, the smoke seemed to be getting worse to me. Strange to see so much coming from a gearbox.
Bernard, don’t know if it makes any difference, but Gav’s/Barrie’s gearbox is a Hewland sequential jobbie. I would like one of those too
They don’t know what the smoke was yet. Apparently the bell housing is a potential weak spot though and they are considering re-designing it for next year.
The engine failures they have had are not acceptable and its a real shame they can’t put something more reliable in. FFS you can get 240bhp out of a standard UK Honda with throttle bodies and I’m sure it would be bloody reliable so long as you added a dry sump and adequate cooling.