I think the 2Bular is a 4-1 manifold whereas the Ronin manifold is 4-2-1.
I am currently looking into different options with regards the mapping. I know many people only say good things about sinclaire but off what i have seen so far personally i’m doing some digging before I go there. No body seems to be able to tell me why Charlie can get another 20bhp out of a car with the same set up as sincs can.
With lesser fuel too.
No different design, but the same pricipal so they will give very similar performance, I’m sure Frank will be along soon to tell us the 2bular one has near 90 deg turns but in reality it will make very little difference in noticeable performance over the standard one which is a bit shocking…
You have to remeber Charlie uses US HP not UK 
My original map was done by Charlie in the US and the ECU lost 10hp on the flight home 
The use DIN and we use SAE their rollers might be callibrated differently or the pulls are done in a different gear to ours, all these slight difference add up, get a before done and an after to see what you gained not overall HP figures
[quote=ade]You have to remeber Charlie uses US HP not UK
My original map was done by Charlie in the US and the ECU lost 10hp on the flight home
The use DIN and we use SAE their rollers might be callibrated differently or the pulls are done in a different gear to ours, all these slight difference add up, get a before done and an after to see what you gained not overall HP figures
[/quote]
I’ll look for some figures when I am not on my phone as its hard work, but the us cars all seem to start with 202rwhp just like the uk cars.
Also I know of two cars mapped by sinks one standard apart from a backbox and trd, one with full 2bular, cat bypass and upgraded cooler plus trd, which do you think got the better result?
My mate’s car is currently in sincs and imvho it was a hard sell on a CC and upgraded fuel pump before they would go over 260 approx at the flywheel.
Thats what iam not sure about, lotus get 260, without fitting a manifold and even now do a 270 upgrade for the 211 using a std manifold and air to air intercooler.
I am happy to be prooved wrong but it just looks to me like unless they can sell u a CC and the labour that goes with it they stop at 260bhp.
I think Sinclaires might not be so keen to push cars beyond 260 without a charge cooler. You could argue its about � but I really think its more about being safe and protecting their reputation. I have no doubts they could take it beyond 260 but at what expense? It only takes one or two engines to go bang and then the rumour mill starts.
sorry stevey I can’t buy that. Your car has been pushed to 255 with no cooling at all and u don’t have a manifold. Lotus are willing to push to 270 on air to air so i should say its pretty safe.
The air to air on a 211 is much more efficient than the Exige as it has more cold air flow, you could run more than 260hp with air to air but you won’t get it for long till the IC is so hot it is not efficient anymore, it was interesting comparing the heat of the IC pipes on Mark’s car compared to mine after a hard run at Spa the difference was huge.
As for the pump, we found the limit on my car and it came to light after the car had been running the extra boost, it was fine when tuned but a few months down the line the pump was older and could not keep up at the top end and was going quite lean, Dan tried to add more fuel but could not due to the pump.
TBH I think you can run the cars with the higher boost level on the IC it will just lower the life expectancy of the engine some what. I am still adding stuff to mine that people now have from the developement work done since mine was done, this work is to add top mounted fans to help keep the CC rad cooler as it will be in clear air all the time not being blocked by the fans. At the end of the day you pay your money and make your choice, we all think where we spent our money is the best
On a side note the manifold really only adds midrange torque not peak power
Are you sure the 211 is much more efficient? It has bigger inlet hoses but they are not a sealed connection from the side vents and are not directly aimed onto the core. It does however have the cup core as standard.
Also compairing your car to Marks at spar, afaik Mark has the standard core and his duct is not opened up.
I have an uprated intercooler, my duct is about 50% bigger than standard and i am looking at adding more ducted air from the side pods giving about double the airflow i have now. The impression i get this will mean nothing to sinclaires and i’ll just get the 260 that everybody gets.
With regards to the manifold i was told by sincs (I think) that the manifold helps to increase gas speed through the engine which keeps inlet temps lower and allows boost to be raised?
So I guess my point is that with my planned manifold and sports cat my car should be at least good for 270bhp as Lotus can get that from the 211, if I take it to Sincs I know that i will get at best 260 so the manifold and sports cat would be a total waste of money.
Boothy
P.s. Thought your fuel pump only started to run lean at 300 ish.
The main problem with the pump is it will just run 290-300 in very good health, my point was that just a small degradation and you will suffer lean burn at the top end, this could be happening further down the line in HP terms Lotus put the bigger pump on way earlier so if you go by Lotus you should have it before 260hp, we certainly pushed mine to the max and it could have ended in a broken engine, I consider myself lucky in that respect.
I realise your core is way better and in all honesty as the S already has IAT post intercooler then you should always be safe (the ECU will back of the timiing based on charge temps), with the smaller pulley pump and exhaust you should be able to make ~300hp the same as mine just be prepared for the heat soak…
The only area I’m not sure of is the flow rates of your IC.
I’m sure Sincs are just trying to protect themselves but you are the customer, so ask for the bits to be fitted and get the tune done, certainly be interesting to see what it makes in a similar spec to mine with no charge cooler.
PS the kit for the 211 to make 270hp has a smaller pulley, but I have yet to find out what size.
My Standard “S” was annoying to drive when I bought it.
There were so many “holes” in the throttle response and it would very quickly go into slow mode after just waiting at traffic lights etc.
3 cooling mods later and the different is night and day!
The result is simply astounding! trust me…
I,m absolutely convinced that this setup will cool enough air for 300 bhp…
1)open the roof “letterbox” restriction
2)fit a bigger scoop
3)fit a decent intercooler
Interesting to note that the latest 260 cup has the above 3 mods incorporated as standard , also the 260 has the ever so much needed Slip Diff too …
Perhaps the spies at Lotus were watching this forum !!! lol
“I did mine first !” lol lol
The “s” is a good car but , as standard it is woefully under-developed/sorted as it comes from the factory.
I completely agree, the usual under developed Lotus problem…
When i had my fisrt S1 Elise me and my mate reckoned BMW had spent more on R&D of his M3 sat nav than Lotus spent on the S1…
Slightly off topic here , but …
I,d like to bet the 2nd cam wear problem that Jonnyfox is having is now’t to do with the toyota engine … Toyota would simply not allow bad cams through there QC… More likely is that in the Exige the cornering “g” allows oil starvation that would not be in issue in a Celica ?
I think that Lotus know this only too well and this is the reason the latest 260 cup has accusump…
Keep your oil levels high folks !!
still in the hotel on my phone which makes typing hard work.
Believe it or not lotus dont use the cup cooler on the 260 and my money is its an un fettled mail slot.
My only worry about the cup style roof is having sat in a 211, the heat from the rad is very noticable, i think the cup roof will catch more warm air.?
Ade, tbh I would probably not bother with the pully, a good 280 would do me, i think thats possible on a std pully?
As you say it will heat soke more than a cc under heavy conditions but thats probably less than 5% of the time, its not that hot in las bolton. 
Yea and no lol my car being na does have Jims 4-2-1 however 4-1is his SC offering and ade shocking is way off base in describing it mate. Given what came off and the other one I’ve tried my 2bular is a work of art!
Another chap on SELOC got the Katana + 4-2-1 manifold remapped by Sinclaire’s and it made 258 bhp on their conservative dyno. He’s still running stock boost of 7PSI which I think is the reason why an intercooler is not needed.
On a Gotham tune with manifold you want to pay attention to the torque band rather than the top end bhp number. Sure top end bhp numbers look good but in our cars its torque that will drop your 0 to 60 and 0 to 100 times.
I reckon I could get 265bhp & 175lb/ft with a new manifold on my Katana. To go beyond that I’d need an intercooler/CC with a shorter pulley & 9.5PSI of boost.
btw - I don’t think Sinc’s would purposely limit the power output of your car with they do a custom map. If they could get ~270bhp out of an Exige S with uprated intercooler & manifold then they’d sell like hot cakes.
[quote=blacktoy]Another chap on SELOC got the Katana + 4-2-1 manifold remapped by Sinclaire’s and it made 258 bhp on their conservative dyno. He’s still running stock boost of 7PSI which I think is the reason why an intercooler is not needed.
On a Gotham tune with manifold you want to pay attention to the torque band rather than the top end bhp number. Sure top end bhp numbers look good but in our cars its torque that will drop your 0 to 60 and 0 to 100 times.
I reckon I could get 265bhp & 175lb/ft with a new manifold on my Katana. To go beyond that I’d need an intercooler/CC with a shorter pulley & 9.5PSI of boost.
btw - I don’t think Sinc’s would purposely limit the power output of your car with they do a custom map. If they could get ~270bhp out of an Exige S with uprated intercooler & manifold then they’d sell like hot cakes.
Thing is though a Katana and an exige S are pretty much the same thing but on an exige S the intake temps will always be cooler than a Katana because it’s intercooled.
My mate is just having a CC and custom map done by Sincs (std pully) and has been told to expect 280bhp ish (he has full 2bular system), therefore that setup must be good for 280ish regardless of the cooling and as Ade said its more about protection of the engine. However my cooling is not standard and like JFK my Forge made a big difference to the way my car drives so I am confident the cooling is good for 280bhp.
The cynic in me just says if you have the monopoly on the ecu tuning thing and you make good money from fitting CC’s (plenty of labour time) why would you get an intercooled car up to that power output?
If people could get 280bhp from an intercooler solution and only needed a CC to make 300bhp I bet you would see CC sales fall off.
Boothy
To get 300hp you need to add boost, about 10hp per psi, however the charge temps rocket with the extra boost, I am running the max boost for standard internals of 9.5 psi, if you don’t keep the cylinder temps down with 9.5 psi you will get det and it doesn’t matter how good the knock sensor is the engine life will be seriously limited.
What I really like about mine is 205lb/ft of torque I now have not 300+ hp, its all in mid range and high end torque that makes the car so driveable, and on track I can sometimes take a higher gear in a cornaer which is easier on the car as I don’t have to red line it so much.
Overall you are right with a boost upgrade you could make 300+ on your inter cooler but you will limit the engine some what in life, and on track you won’t have 300hp for long as the heat soak will take it all away.
Are you going on the 30th? If you are you can have a feel of the temp of my CC outlet pipe then compare it yours, I’m positive it will be like day and night in comparison.
I was making a performance comparison not a technical or engineering one, I know where I put my money with my exhaust manifold and it wasn’t the Ronin, even though I could have saved some cash, I didn’t think the build quality or overall design was anything close to Jim’s 
Probably most upsettingly looks wise mine is covered in blue Zircotec as I now can’t see the lovely welds However temp wise it was well worth it, actually thinking about it the Blue Zircotec matches my car