Better torque low down will help as well, espeically from rest.
Ian
true, that’ll be having sensible cams for lower down… Unlike the gutless VHPD
Lotus stopped selling the S1 because they simply couldn’t sell that engine any more due to emissions regs.
Sales actually picked up towards the end, partly due to the price drop and partly because people started seeing just how quick the things are at track days.
Personally, I love the look of the new car. The only disappointing part for me is that it should be more different from the Elise.
So, apart from styling (which is down to personal taste) what could they ‘easily’ have done better?
Power, worked harder to keep the weight down and not killed the downforce.
Ian
I expect Lotus will answer the question themselves later in the year with - more power and downforce.
Ian
Personally, I love the look of the new car.
Well done Brendan, you’ve actually said it now - you’ll soon start to feel better.
Guys, guys, just stop reading those reviews!, you’ll feel better (I do)
On my side, I like the looks, engine and what they’ve done to the handling.
I don’t like the added weight, the same power and the fact that it’s going to attract lots of new poser owners.
On the other hand this is going to attract lots of engine development and add-ons (Max Power type), we’ll benefit from that as well.
BUT… I don’t have the dosh to buy another Exige. If I had, I’d be buying another one, and a Radical SR4, and a couple of karts, and a Voyager with a closed trailer to haul the karts and Radical, and three bikes, and a mistress.
So, that’s me staying with my Exige. The original one.
And not worrying what others say about the new one. I’ll overtake them at the track.
Just how different is a Mk1 Exige from an Elise Sport 190?
Visually, very different… and it’ll go around corners much faster. When compared with a std.Elise the differences are even greater.
The S2 Exige isn’t significantly removed from a run of the mill 111R to be called anything but an Elise coupe.
Since Lotus are known to read this forum, I would love for someone to come forward and explain why they’ve dumbed it down. Why is there less downforce ? It falls between stools.
Since the Exige was the track-orientated version of the Elise, I don’t understand why the S2 revision of the Exige moves the car further from the track use… particularly when you have the likes of Noble getting their act together and IMPROVING their cars for track use…
I’ve said it before about the S2 Exige, I just don’t get it.
It seems the new Exige corners much faster than a 111R, so that hasn’t changed much.
It’s obvious why Lotus have ‘dumbed down’ the Exige. They’ve already sold about as many Exiges as there are potential owners. They’d only sell a couple of hunded cars if they shifted more towards track use, so they made it a better road car.
The older car doesn’t really have enough power to cope with the downforce, which is why Autocar could only get it to do something silly like 124mph. Reducing the downforce a little makes a lot of sense to me. A top speed of 150mph looks a lot better on paper for people who look at things like that, and more importantly it’s going to seriously improve the car’s overtaking ability on the road.
Although they’ve moved the focus towards road use, they have succeeded in making the car better for occasional track use in two useful areas: It handles better, and you can use the engine properly without worrying so much.
Ian, Lotus could have given the car more power, but then everybody would complain about the price (don’t forget the new car is CHEAPER than the old one was when it was launched even though a few years have passed in the mean time).
Keeping the weight down is the one area that I feel they’ve failed in. The problem is that they’ve been trying to expand the market for the standard Elise by upping the quality, and it’s not worth their time trying to reduce the weight specifically for a lower volume model like the Exige.
It seems the new Exige corners much faster than a 111R
What tyres does a 111R come with ? I wouldn’t be surprised if the S2 Exige only cornered faster due to the sticky tyres.(111R has Bridgestones right ?) The S1 Exige cornered much faster than an equally shod Elise.
They’d only sell a couple of hunded cars if they shifted more towards track use
And what’s wrong with making a limited-appeal track-orientated version ? Hell, they make enough flipping variants of the Elise (111S, 111R, 135… … etc.etc.) to cater for everyone wanting one of those, why deny those who want a raw version ? It’s a jack off all and master of none.
The older car doesn’t really have enough power to cope with the downforce
True, but the new one would…
which is why Autocar could only get it to do something silly like 124mph.
Which is fast enough for road and track use.
Reducing the downforce a little makes a lot of sense to me. A top speed of 150mph looks a lot better on paper for people who look at things like that
Except that no-one will ever use that extra 26mph in reality…
and more importantly it’s going to seriously improve the car’s overtaking ability on the road.
I don’t think a S1 Exige with an S2 engine would suffer from overtaking problems.
they have succeeded in making the car better for occasional track use in two useful areas: It handles better, and you can use the engine properly without worrying so much.
And they could have achieved both of those even with S1 style bodywork.
I mean… the S1 Exige looked like it had been designed the way it was… the S2 Exige looks like someone has taken an S1 Elise and (badly) bolted some black aftermarket crap on it… It just looks silly…
The only way Lotus can redeem themselves is if they make an Exige-R (which wouldn’t surprise me) that does away with the extra weight which was miraculously sprung from nowhere and make some proper panels to make the bodywork look cohesive. Of course, you’ll have to pay �39,995 for it… but maybe… maybe they’ll make it the car it should have been to be the spiritual successor to the original, rather than a cynical get-rich-quick scheme.
< and breathe… >
If LOTUS do follow this site and numerous Exige owners’ honest & sincere opinions…
Than I believe I’ll be correct in saying that I speak for most agreeing with the previous statement that if Lotus want to redeem themselves of this misguided mishap of a Exige S2 than the only way is to design an Exige-R
We all love the fierce raw look of the S1 and returning to that would be better then clipped add-ons making a S2 look like a Elise with Max Power extras. Manufacturing Elise variants for the road and leave the Exige for real track use driving. Remembring that the Exige originally was a track car before its road verion came to life.
Certainly a bigger engine with a better gearbox would be a must if a new version of an Exige is to succeed, just to differentate it from an Elise, else I’m afraid that this new S2 would be a harder sell than the original Exige.
We realise that Lotus have a new way of sharing modules, wiring architecture, design & components between models but having such close similiarity between an expecpted track going car (Exige) and a road version (Elise) is a dangerous philisophy.
Plus I’m finding it a real puzzle that even the sole Central London Lotus dealer still hasn’t got a showroom model for an Exige S2, what’s the deal there? I think that I’ve to wait until the Motor Show at the NEC to see a new S2.
Phew… glad I got that out of my system.
Wow, David. You feel quite strongly about this?
Let’s see if I can look at your answers another way…just for the sake of provoking some more of this healthy debate
What tyres does a 111R come with ? I wouldn’t be surprised if the S2 Exige only cornered faster due to the sticky tyres.(111R has Bridgestones right ?) The S1 Exige cornered much faster than an equally shod Elise.
So all the extra suspension work and the (admittedly reduced) downforce count for nothing?
And what’s wrong with making a limited-appeal track-orientated version ?
Lotus desperately need to make some profit, so that they can continue to develop new models. If they actually make some money out of the new car, maybe they’ll be able to afford to produce more niche models in the future.
True, but the new one would…(have enough power to cope with the downforce)
I’m not sure the Toyota motor produces all that much more power.
Which is fast enough for road and track use. (124mph)
But it does suggest a great deal of aerodynamic drag which means poor acceleration at high speeds. Plus I’m quite sure that you of all people don’t really believe you can ever have enough speed
Except that no-one will ever use that extra 26mph in reality…)
Speak for yourself
I don’t think a S1 Exige with an S2 engine would suffer from overtaking problems.
See my previous reply regarding power.
And they could have achieved both of those even with S1 style bodywork.
But that wouldn’t answer the criticism of the car’s straight line speed problem.
I mean… the S1 Exige looked like it had been designed the way it was… the S2 Exige looks like someone has taken an S1 Elise and (badly) bolted some black aftermarket crap on it… It just looks silly…
Styling is a purely subjective matter. I think they did a great job with the S1, but personally I think the S2 Elise was a better starting point. I do think they could have better, though. I’d be tempted to get rid of the side scoop thingies, and either replace the wing or at least have it colour coded.
The only way Lotus can redeem themselves is if they make an Exige-R (which wouldn’t surprise me) that does away with the extra weight which was miraculously sprung from nowhere and make some proper panels to make the bodywork look cohesive. Of course, you’ll have to pay �39,995 for it… but maybe… maybe they’ll make it the car it should have been to be the spiritual successor to the original, rather than a cynical get-rich-quick scheme.
As you say, that is likely for the future, but everybody knows that Lotus would really struggle to sell a �40K Elise variant. Reducing the weight significantly would be a major and very expensive engineering job.
I think we should be happy they actually spent some time and money developing the new car. They did bugger all for the old one. They made very little effort with the suspension setup; it was exactly the same as the Elise sport setup apart from stiffer springs. They never even bothered changing the dampers. Build quality is a joke. Problems with the rear clam eroding over time was just embarrasing. I think the S1 was the get-rich-quick scheme.
I still love it, though
So all the extra suspension work and the (admittedly reduced) downforce count for nothing?
Not at all, but I’m pretty sure the extra grip the S2 Exige has is down to the tyres more than fancy dampers.
I’d pretty much guarantee that an S1 Exige with an S2 engine would whoop an S2 around Donington. Is that progress ?
Styling is a purely subjective matter
True, but the general concensus is that it looks like a halfords tack-on job rather than a cohesive race-bred appearance.
Reducing the weight significantly would be a major and very expensive engineering job.
Why ? Lose the ABS etc… back to basics, Chapman style. Heck, they went through all the effort of adding the weight, I can’t imagine it’s rocket science to undo it.
As mentioned above, the Exige was the road going version of the Elise Motorsport… why not give us the same paradigm again ? Yes it was compromised, but we liked it that way.
I’ve said this before…
The S1 was a road-going version of the Motorsport Elise. Until there is another Motorsport Elise there shouldn’t be another Exige.
The S2 is an Elise Coupe.
Interesting comments from SELOC:
“I’m suddenly wondering if the entire existence of the new Exige is due to them needing the raised rear to get the supercharger in…”
Now there’s a thought.
“Having just got back from the Le mans weekend I’m sorry but need to disagree with Nigel (JohnnyStorm).
The Exige was no quicker up the start/finish straight on the Bugatti circuit than my tweeked 135R and no quicker than a S160.
It was quicker through the corners due to a) driver skill and b) the fact that admitted he was killing the brakes using the ABS.
Its geared for a top speed of 150mph and whilst being impressed with a sideways lap scaring the French in Group D, it doesn’t make it a good choice for the road.
The disturbing fact that there was only one factory Exige left running by Sunday morning doesn’t inspire confidence either.”
There was also some query over the type of pads fitted as they squealed a bit.
Ian
… the Exige was the road going version of the Elise Motorsport… why not give us the same paradigm again ? Yes it was compromised, but we liked it that way.
Pure marketing bullshit. The S1 was a Sport 190 with bigger wheels, different bodywork, and an extra 80 kilos of weight.
Is THAT progress ?
I’m enjoying this
Reducing the weight would be expensive simply because it would require a much bigger difference from the 111R.
If you want back to basics, all of the nonsense like central locking and electric windows are delete options.
I think I’d better stop this soon, I’m sure I must be starting to offend people and alienate myself
I’d pretty much guarantee that an S1 Exige with an S2 engine would whoop an S2 around Donington. Is that progress ?
Dave,
I agree with you overally.
Except that while I do believe that the Honda engine is both more powerful than the VHPD AND more reliable, I also believe that the VVTi is only more reliale, but not more powerful.
Also, while 6 gears may be good in some cases, without the flexibility of interchangeable gear ratios, 6 gears can be actually worse in some tracks.
Too many changes to keep the engine on the sweet spot if the gearing is not spot on.
In short, the VVTi is both more peaky, not more powerful and a lot heavier, so don’t think an S1 with a VVTi would lap any quicker ANY track (you’ll have a heavier car anyway with just an engine swap).
A thought for those of you thinking the original Exige is a future classic: how much of a classic would your beloved car be in the future if it’s had the engine swapped?
I intend to keep my VHPD in the Exige, and probably build an S1 Elise-based track monster.
Or just buy an SR4.
Uldis, you might be right about Toyota being no more powerful, but I have my doubts. The magazine tests do suggest that the 111R is quicker to 100mph than the S1 despite a fair bit of extra weight.
Gear ratios being closer can do that.
It is not more powerful at top end nor mid range. It is more reliable though.
But doing many shifts through a normal gear change gate is slow and cumbersome. You need sequential shifting in that case. Which the Coupe does not have.
I have a theory about the disappointing styling…
Somebody feel free to tell me this is a load of rubbish, but here goes…
The Elise and Exige S1 bodies were made in-house at Lotus using traditional hand lay-up techniques. This is labour intensive, but the advantage is that making the moulds is relatively cheap. This system is ideal for low production runs.
The Elise S2 body is outsourced to a French company who make the panels using a more automated process. These panels require much less hand finishing, but the cost of the moulds was very high. This system works better if you’re going to sell lots of these cars. A big advantage of this system is much better quality of panels with good finish on both sides, and the panels can be made thinner where they don’t need the extra strength.
Where does this leave the new Exige? It’s surely not worth the expense of getting new moulds made by the French supplier, so do Lotus go back to their old technique and lose the quality?
My GUESS, would be that they take Elise panels, cut away the bits they don’t want, and bond in replacement ‘Exige’ parts which would be made in-house.
This would explain why the basic body shape is so little changed from the Elise.
What do you think guys?