but also told to apologise to ‘all’ the marshalls ‘for wasting their time’ before i was allowed back on… i really didn’t like that and it p155ed me off big time… i’t also not really possible or practical…that was BS.
Randy - totally agree that the marshals usually are motivated by more than the money and have the safety of everyone involved as their 1st priority but don’t you think the above was more than a little OTT?
Also, the marshals are “employed” by the circuit and as other threads on the cost of trackdays lays witness to, they are not in it for entirely altruistic motives!
As an aside, in the offroad competition world, as least at club level, it wasn’t unusual for competitors to have to marshal at one or two events a year. At least it gave everyone a full understanding and appreciation of what a marshals lot was.
are way off the mark. Those same marshals who do track days also do race days for the pure enjoyment of the sport. They are the most fundamentally important people on a track or race day and should be treated with the utmost respect. Whats more I have never met a marshal who isn’t a complete enthusiast and thoroughly nice person. Sorry to get elevated but it’s something I feel strongly about…
I don’t see what a marshalls’ enthusiasm for the sport has got to do with the “need” to apologise to them.
I am utterly respectful towards them, but they don’t need apologising to. Fellow trackday go-ers who have paid hard-earned to attend a day which is being stopped need apologising to. Paid employees doing their job do not.
If it’s a hardship for them to pull a car out of the gravel, then they’re in the wrong job.
are way off the mark. Those same marshals who do track days also do race days for the pure enjoyment of the sport. They are the most fundamentally important people on a track or race day and should be treated with the utmost respect. Whats more I have never met a marshal who isn’t a complete enthusiast and thoroughly nice person. Sorry to get elevated but it’s something I feel strongly about…
I don’t see what a marshalls’ enthusiasm for the sport has got to do with the “need” to apologise to them.
I am utterly respectful towards them, but they don’t need apologising to. Fellow trackday go-ers who have paid hard-earned to attend a day which is being stopped need apologising to. Paid employees doing their job do not.
If it’s a hardship for them to pull a car out of the gravel, then they’re in the wrong job.
Yeah, your comments came across really respectful.
When did I ever suggest they made a meal out of doing their job - thats about as far away from what I’m saying as you could get. And to suggest it’s a job in the conventional sense is not really right. I don’t know what they do get paid but I’m pretty sure it’s bugger all. They do it to be involved in the sport they love, simple as that.
On a test day, the rule is basically that you stay on line and a faster car has to get past you offline. It’s worked on test days for a long time. It may well work for advanced trackdayers, but personally I think beginners would struggle with reacting in this sort of situation, and insurance companies tend to have the same view, hence TDOs enforce the ‘on the left with consent’ rule. Let’s just say Randy prefers the old rule.
I would just like to add my thoughts…We all need to remember that when on the track its not just our lives that could be at risk (god I sound like a public information film, sorry) It’s the other users, marshals, etc. There will always be experienced and inexperienced drivers but track days are supposed to be a safe way of enjoying our cars handling and speed and the marshals and organizers are their to make sure this happens(or should be)…I know this is a bit extreme but I have seen a wheel come of an F1 car and hit a marshal which killed him…this was not a pretty site…and lets face it some times it seems they just want to spoil the fun, but without them every boy racer in the land would be trying to take a chunk out of our pride and joy.
The trouble with on the left with consent is that how do you know for sure you have consent. Was he waving me past or was he scratching his left ear? Is his indicator on because he is moving out the way or has he knocked it by accident? Leaves us in a whole world of uncertainty which ends in accidents. Also, with overtaking on the left, the onus is on the slower, andprobably less experienced, driver to be very aware of his surroundings whereas with the race rules the slower car doesn’t even have to look into his mirrors to remain safe. All he needs to do is follow the racing line. On top of that the whole consent thing breeds irritation for the faster drivers who can’t make nice, quick, safe passes under braking.
All I can say on this is, that for all but a very tiny minority (ie experienced racing drivers ), the pass on the left with consent works very well. Definately frustrating on occasions, but it works ie it minimises the chance of an incident.
On a trackday, it shouldn’t matter if you get held up for one (maybe two) corner, cos you’re not racing. If the driver in front won’t move over/let you pass, pull into the pits & ask the organiser to have a word with the culprit. Yep, it is frustrating, but it keeps the day safe for EVERYBODY.
The other thing is, that it is most unlikely that Ins Co would cover you without this rule. I can’t afford to take the risk of taking my car on track, without insurance, & I doubt that many others would be prepared to.
It always amazes me to see an occasional snake of cars following each other - I prefer to slow down and make a bit of space in front of me. Although there is a certain satisfaction in running down and then overtaking another car or indeed following a car through a few corners to see how they do things differently and perhaps even faster than you, the best sessions are were you get into a groove and never see another car for several laps. If you can find a bubble its a pure joy.
Frankly I have seen some atrocious driving standards at trackdays across the board and if nothing is said then the standards won’t improve. Unfortunately poor driving standards often come hand in hand with sensitive egos as displayed on this thread. If an experienced instructor points something out to you it’s worth considering that maybe he has a point.
No sensitivity about my ego… always happy to learn and I don’t have a competitive need to be first all the time either… I’m certainly not above making apologies when in the wrong but just exactly what would his point be in asking someone to apologise to the marshalls for wasting their time after an off??.. and what has this got to do with Driving Standards ???
You never had an off Randy ? or never just marginally got into a situation that you had insufficient control over and unfortunately didn’t get away with it??
If its not me your refering to then I completely apologise to you but you need to be more specific please, not make some arbirtary comment about driving standards and ego’s in a thread that has thus far not really been about either… just where do you see the sensitive ego being displayed in this thread !!
I have had a rough day already and really can’t be arsed with any SELOC mentality when I come here to see how everyone is doing… so can you please let me know just what you meant.
You’re surprised that Randy has a holier than thou attitude Rox ?? You must be tired to the point of forgetfulness !
Yeah, your comments came across really respectful.
I have every respect for marshalls. I do NOT have respect for petty, patronising idiots who try to enforce a rule like apologising to all marshalls around a circuit if you fall off the track… Are you suggesting that trackday organisers who don’t enforce this rule are being disrespectful ? I shouldn’t imagine marshalls give a flying f**k about someone being told to apologise to them.
I have done loads of Easytrack days with no serious problems at all. I would highly recomend them.
Marcus, who runs Easytrack, does seem to enjoy humiliating people who have had an off or who have commited other offences, mostly just best not to take it seriously and then ignore his more stupid outbursts.
Probably good advice Anthony, but he has to be carefull if he does it with people he doesn’t know… probably works okay with people who are familiar with him either 1st hand or thru’ mutual aquantance. Maybe I took him too seriously, where it wasn’t due, but i’d venture a more professional approach would be better with unknown paying customers… no?
Randy, occasional trackday participants are not usually experienced racers in my view, & most listen to the good advice of the marshalls/track operators, as they dont want their pride & joy damaged,insured or not. If you’re not sure of the signal being given by the one in front then don’t act, just like you would apply using good road sense.It’s not a race on trackdays.
If you prefer the ‘old rule’ stick to test days/race meets.How many track day users know the racing lines of a new or infrequently visited track anyway & how could you assume they do before going by without consent?
If I saw someone infront scratchin’ his/her ear, i’d be wondering where they left their crash helmet, rather than whether to pass or not
Sorry if that sounds like a rant, but track days are for everyones fun.
Tim - I often wonder about some of the slower cars and whether they are getting their monies worth - afterall they have paid the same money as me and deserve to have the opportunity to enjoy themselves. I know that pulling off the line and perhaps lifting off the accelerator can loose you a couple of good corners and over a few laps can be quite distracting if most/all of the other cars are that much faster.
I guess sessioned trackdays are best if you are relatively new or slow.
I have to say I have never had any problems with marshals or track day organisors. I have had a few bollockings for racing with my mates, and thats fair enough I guess as “racing” isn’t supposed to be allowed.
The biggest off I have had recently was Craner curves at Donnington. It all went wrong on the left hander at the bottom of craners and I was going that fast that I made it 90% of the way to the tyre wall through the sea of gravel. The Donington boys got me out and towed me back and there wasn’t a sigle out of place word said. I spun and went off and that was that, end of. Of course I apologised as soon as the course car got to me, out of politness for stopping the session, and I thanked all the marshals for getting me out quickly and without ripping anything off my car. I ended up with a self imposed one session ban as it took me about an hour and a half to “de-gravel” the bloody car.
You’re surprised that Randy has a holier than thou attitude Rox ?? You must be tired to the point of forgetfulness !
Yeah, your comments came across really respectful.
I have every respect for marshalls. I do NOT have respect for petty, patronising idiots who try to enforce a rule like apologising to all marshalls around a circuit if you fall off the track… Are you suggesting that trackday organisers who don’t enforce this rule are being disrespectful ? I shouldn’t imagine marshalls give a flying f**k about someone being told to apologise to them.
I’m surprised you you managed a reply as opposed to deleting the thread as you usually do when you are made to look an idiot.
Rox - no referral to you intended, as I said before I didn’t know the circumstances so couldn’t comment. My comments were directed across the board really.
On the track day versus test day front I do try my best to avoid track days when I’m running a race car. Lotus on Track have been very supportive of Simon and I so we have attended many of their days which have been excellent. Only once have I taken the Nissan to a track day and that was only really because I had a race coming up and there was nowhere else to test (bloody hard these days with noise regs).
Okay, okay, let’s all take a few deep breaths, stand back, mutter a few expletives to ourselves, take a few more deep breaths, then consider this thread closed.
Please, let’s not fall out - surely we can agree to disagree, without hurling personal abuse